He is not a man. But neither is he a boy!

I always side with stormcloaks. They’re both bad in their own way but…
 
I’m gonna go with the people who didn’t try to execute me for no reason. Just saying.

Ulfric is racist just like the dark elves, high elves, wood elves, khajiit, argonoans and pretty much anyone else.
 
They all dislike outsiders, especially the dark elves (although they are more subtle about it).  
Tullius was also racist since he openly insulted the Nordic traditions.
 
Commenting on Ulfric being racist is as pertinent as calling someone born 400 years ago racist.  
It’s the norm.

Imperial for lyfe bro.

Join Imperials  
kill Thalmor
 
whooooooooo

God I hate Windhelm, Ulfric, and the stormcloaks. A bunch of racist, xenophobic, magic-hating thugs. Even if they won, they won’t be able to much of anything to the thalmor. Besides, at the end of the imperial questline, Tullius hints another war/rebellion from the empire.

Uh guys, I don’t mean to rain down on this conversation or anithing, but shouldn’t we be more concerened about that whole WORLD EATING DRAGON thing first?

@Keith Mowz
 
Damn Thalmors.  
Who do they think they are?  
I’ll ban their gods if I can!

(Incoming wall of caps)
 
FUCK YOU ULFRIC, FUCK YOU HARD.
 
YOU ACTUALLY MADE FIGHTING FOR THE OPPRESSIVE EMPIRE A LEGITIMATE AND MORE APPEALING OPTION FOR MOST PLAYERS. HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO FUCK THAT UP? IF IT WASN’T FOR YOUR BIZZARE RACIST BULLSHIT THEN I’D BE A STORMCLOAK ANY DAY, BUT HEY I DON’T LIKE PLAYING A NORD AND SEEING AS THOUGH APPARENTLY SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN GTFO OR LIVE IN A FUCKING GHETTO, IT LOOKS LIKE I’M FIGHTING FOR THE CORRUPT AND INCOMPETENT EMPIRE.
 
FUCK. YOU. WITH. A. DRAGON.
 
[/end]

Just throwing this out there: if Ulfric can’t even handle his one city, how do you expect him to run all of Skyrim?

@Whatevs  
The empire is fine, the problem is the Thalmor.
 
I support the Empire so that they may grow strong enough to be able to resist them. The Stormcloaks simply cannot unify Tamriel, while the Empire pretty much already has.
 
And of course I still support Talos, I was an avatar of the Nine back in Oblivion; its a confirmed fact that he’s a legitimate Divine.

Uh, this is an edit of a screencap from the show, so it is certainly pony related.

@Zincy  
well I decided that I wasn’t going to change my mind about the Stormcloaks because of a poorly justified subplot.
 
The way I see it: The Empire is stomping on the freedoms of people outside of Cyrodil (I doubt the nords are the only victims) whereas Ulfric was prejudiced against outsiders in one of the native lands.
 
So in my eyes he is the lesser of two evils because his bad policies are more restricted

@Whatevs
 
The Empire isn’t prefect, but you know what, it never was. But it’s the best hope for humanity’s future on Nirn. It may be corrupt, and it may do some stupid things, but it will hold back the elven tide when war inevitable comes again.
 
There’s irony in my words since I normally side with the “freedom” guys. I’m kind of laughing to myself that I use a few of your arguments when going after the Terran Republic in Planetside. I just prefer the Empire since I think they are the better option, the lesser of two evils.

@Zincy  
I still say that his eagerness to stomp the rebels contradicts his “true motivations”
 
I would also argue that the nords would be more likely to support the Empire against the elves if the Empire was truly on their side.
 
But also, Ulfric mentions more problems with the Empire than the White-Gold Concordant.
 
He says that they have beggared the people of Skyrim to pay off its debts, fails to protect them but apparently has enough manpower to crush their culture.
 
The Empire is corrupt

@Whatevs
 
Not incompetent, just underestimated the Stormcloaks. It was supposed to be a quick thing, but then it went all Iraq on our asses.

@Itsthinking  
Tullius says “this is what the Thalmor want” when you kill him.  
He knew.

@Itsthinking  
and Tullius and the Legion were eager to oblige, despite knowing.
 
They were only concerned with stomping the rebels when they could have viewed them as potential allies,

@Whatevs  
I don’t think either side realized how much the Thalmor were planning.

@Zincy  
This. The Thalmor want fractured groups, they’re easier to conquer.

@Zincy  
well I am glad you mentioned that. I personally found that development to be poor form and pulled out of the writer’s ass.
 
Because if Tullius were truly concerned with that, why did he have such contempt for the Stormcloaks rather than view them as potential allies?  
But no, Tullius was totally gung ho for the conflict, also playing into the Thalmor’s hands despite the fact that he knew this was their plan.  
So, plot hole I think, or he is famously incompetent.

@Zincy  
Consider that the Thalmor only want the Empire’s power expended on a single nation. I think that having all other races fighting the Thalmor is the only way to go, and the only way to do that would be through the second coming of Martin Septim.

I side with the Empire. I just could not see an independent Skyrim standing up to the Thalmor. Sure the Empire’s suppression of Talos is bad, but the racism inherent in the Stormcloak’s MO plus the ghettos in their capital was enough for me to keep going until I had Ulfric’s head cut clean from his body.