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You say Im the one going in circles, yet you’re the one desperately holding onto the pitiful idea that anyone here’s implying they’re mad because Spike always has to be perfect. For the 3-4th time already, no one is saying that. The problem here is simply that you fail to realize that this isn’t a theme that needs to span over several different episodes to hold true. Irony.
SAYS was all about Spike continuously doing stuff/chores. You’re the only one going in circles here because you fail to understand what SAYS did to Spike once and again, and not just as an individual, separate scene which is what your point relies on.
Again, go enjoy your subpar standards somewhere else, “son”.
Nobody cares about your pathetic excuses here.
Also, a never breed joke? Seriously?
Wow, if you were going to fail so hard at logic to begin with, I hoped you’d at least be pleasant about it. But failing at humor as a way to avert people’s attention from your ridiculous excuse for an argument? Irony strikes again.
Thank you though, you’ve showed me why some people are so in favor of abortion. Afterall, anything that could spare the world of more people like you can’t be all that bad.
You’re just running around in circles now, son. I’m still not sure how you can manage to turn “he does this in a bunch of other episodes” into “it’s out of character because he does it in this episode” but you don’t appear to know any other verses to that song. You’re not wrong because you’re disagreeing with me, you’re wrong because you don’t know the difference between “out of character” and “doesn’t match your headcanon”; and sorry/not sorry, but when the show disagrees with your headcanon you are the one who is incorrect. Asspulling pedantic excuses for why this example and that example aren’t exactly verbatim the same right down to the blocking and pretending that makes them different isn’t going to make you any less incorrect. You can lead a horse to knowledge, but you can’t make him think, I guess.
I don’t know why you pretend to like a character and then immediately kick him to the curb the instant he isn’t “perfect” according to your insane standard of Kids Aren’t Allowed To Make Mistakes– never breed, by the way– but the only one shitting on Spike here is you.
Nothing but BS once again. You disproved nothing. You have given no valid arguments.
Your points have only served to show how ooc Spike was in SAYS.
Also, you fail at trying to twist people’s words.
Becoming extremely clumsy while near your crush is much more likely/valid than becoming clumsy when simply trying to return a favor. Being rescued after almost dying has nothing to do with whatever he does afterwards, unless you’re implying the adrenaline he was on during the chase stayed all through the episode until the end, which is pertty stupid.
Spike wanted to return a favor by doing things he’s always done perfectly.
Yet, he failed at all of them at impossibly unrealistic ways for no reasno whatsoever.
That’s good writing for you? Ok, got it. Go enjoy your subpar standards somewhere else.
The rest of us who enjoy the characters as they are, expect at least a tiny bit of solid continuity and characterization. SAYS shat all over Spike’s character to force a joke.
How can you be so oblivious (or purposedely blind) to something so obvious, and yet have the gall to tell others they’re “wrong” as if you created the standard, is beyond me.
Welp, guess that’s up to me, then!
completely different thing
How, exactly, is it “completely different”? You’re just throwing that out there with zero justification. He gets excited– for whatever reason– and it makes him more likely to screw up. You know what happens when people– actual people, who I think can be said to be fairly well written– get flustered? They start screwing up things that they are normally good at, because when you’re good enough at something that you don’t have to think about it, having to think about means you are drastically more likely to choke. Ask a pro athlete.
That’s just the Occam’s Razor, nose-on-your-face obvious explanation for why it happens there, that doesn’t even address the fact that claiming something is OOC when it happens over and over again still means that you are inarguably wrong.
had no reason
So, in your mind, “has a crush” is a more legitimate reason than “almost died, got rescued by friend”. Got it.
Look, I’ve already knocked down your OOC claims. Several times. You refusing to acknowledge it isn’t going to make you any less factually, objectively, quantifiably incorrect. You have insisted that Spike making mistakes is out of character, I have given numerous examples of him making mistakes elsewhere. You are just wrong. Him making a lot of mistakes in the same episode is irrelevant; aside from the fairly obvious matter of “it was a bad day, that’s how those go”, it was a focus episode, and everyone gets all the plot complications dumped on them in their own focus episodes, because it is being told from their point of view and we thus do not get to see everything else going on that day that would normally separate one screw up from the next.
Technically speaking, it’s not true that he “destroys EVERY SINGLE THING he tries his claw at” in SaYS; he does successfully wash Piggington (with Apple Bloom’s help), build a tower of rocks for Rainbow Dash, and count every single blade of grass at Sweet Apple Acres (as useless as that last task was). Which doesn’t change the fact that Spike was ridiculously incompetent in SaYS. While I can understand why that would be enough to prevent someone from enjoying the episode, there was still enough that I loved about it to end up liking the episode OK.
It means that when he comes along later and screws up a bunch of basic stuff because he’s excited about something, it is completely in character for him, because he has been shown repeatedly to screw up basic stuff sometimes, and that when you try to claim that him screwing up is somehow out of character, you look like an absolute idiot.
Wrong.
Him screwing up occasionally due to being overly excited at something is a completely different thing than screwing up EVERY SINGLE basic chore he’s always been able to do perfectly. He also wasn’t “overly exited” in SAYS. True, he was eager to return a favor due to his made up honor code, but again that’s a different thing than, for example, acting clumsy due to his feelings for Rarity, being nervous around teen dragons testing his value, trying to protect a holy relic from a recently awakened dark emperor, etc.
In SAYS, he had no reason to trumble around like an idiot at EVERY SINGLE THING he did. That was just the episode forcing him into an OcC situation. If you don’t see it that way, that’s your problem, and not a fact. The fact is SAYS had Spike constantly (not occasionally) screw up at every single thing he’s always been good (if not great) at.
I don’t hate Merriwether. Never have, so don’t group me with whoever else is it that you have issues with. SAYS is an isolated case for me. It went too far from canon for me to enjoy like I do other episodes. Nice going on the insults btw. It does help convey your actual nature to everyone else.
@TexasUberAlles
Go watch it again. He doesn’t stop urging her to cheat until after Applejack kicks them off the farm for cheating.
I meant out of his OWN annoyance with the way Earth Ponies wanted to go about it. Like in how he first complained that it was just the hard way. You said Spike urging her to use magic was him being a bad friend to her, when the reason he kept asking her to use magic was due to him seeing how much stress the whole thing was causing her.
Also, nice of you to focus on this single case, while completely ignoring all the others I mentioned where you tried to use completely unrelated stuff that most of the time wasn’t even his fault, in order to make Spike look incompetent.
@TexasUberAlles
Wigga please, I have never hated on Spike; him screwing up basic stuff on occasion is a sign of good writing, because kids are like that.
Yes, him screwing up on occasion is a sing of good writing because despite being talented for his, he’s a kid. But in SAYS, he doesn’t screw up “on occasion”. He literally destroys EVERY SINGLE THING he tries his claw at. Most of which are things he’s always done perfectly. There’s a massive difference btween screwing up on occassion, and ruining everything you’ve been good at up until that point, nonstop.
Whether you’re really a Spike-hater or not (don’t care), its precisely the fact that you’re trying to pass an entire episode of screwing up everything as messing up “occasion”, and then blowing other incidents (like sneezing on a book) completely out of proportion in order to support your claims…which makes you look like a hater.
@TexasUberAlles
You’re the one disrespecting the character by insisting that he’s not allowed to have any flaws at all without it somehow being bad writing.
I said no such thing.
Go solve those issues with whoever is it that said that, because that’s not me. I never said he’s not allowed to have any flaws, but SAYS took it to a completely ridiculous, nonsensical level. He’s a great baker, but here can’t make a single dessert w/o burning the whole kitchen. Bar the occasional sneezing, he’s a great house-keeper, but here he can’t mop the floor w/o destroying the entire room in seconds.
That’s not “allowing a character to have flaws”. That’s just shitting all over his character for the sake of giggles and laughs. Learn the difference.
We know that despite being mature most of the time, he’s also prone to childish beahaviour now and then when given the opportunity. Which is completely normal for his age. That doesn’t mean anything.
It means that when he comes along later and screws up a bunch of basic stuff because he’s excited about something, it is completely in character for him, because he has been shown repeatedly to screw up basic stuff sometimes, and that when you try to claim that him screwing up is somehow out of character, you look like an absolute idiot.
You’re just trying to collect a bunch of his more childish antics to try and make him look incompetent on things he’s PROVED he’s good at. That’s plain and simple bashing.
You’re right, I am in fact bashing stupid people, who are trying act like being good at a thing in general means a person will nevereverever screw up at it, despite still being a child. Why is this so hard for you to follow? Spike got excited in SAYS => he started bumbling things he’s normally good at => dopes claim that this is out of character for him and use it to rationalize hating on a good episode just because they’ve got some kind of weird hateboner for the writer => I list a bunch of other times Spike bumbled things he’s normally good at and point out that doing the same thing across multiple episodes is sorta the opposite of “out of character” => you’re wrong.
‘Winter Wrap Up?’ He wasn’t urging her to use magic after she explained to him why she couldn’t.
Go watch it again. He doesn’t stop urging her to cheat until after Applejack kicks them off the farm for cheating.
ridiculous hatred for this character
Wigga please, I have never hated on Spike; him screwing up basic stuff on occasion is a sign of good writing, because kids are like that. He’s impressive because he manages to be good at so many different things at an age that’s only marginally advanced from “zygote” for his people, in spite of being a small child. You’re the one disrespecting the character by insisting that he’s not allowed to have any flaws at all without it somehow being bad writing.
Nothing but nonsense.
Since when is sneezing after inhaling dust (or having hiccups), the equivalent of being incompetent? The fact that he releases fire while doing so its not his fault. Its his race.
He ate a lot of ice cream and got a tummy ache? We know that despite being mature most of the time, he’s also prone to childish beahaviour now and then when given the opportunity. Which is completely normal for his age. That doesn’t mean anything.
How in the world does any of this has anything to do with him being bad at his job?
The answer: It doesn’t. He’s extremely good at it, and very mature when he needs to.
You’re just trying to collect a bunch of his more childish antics to try and make him look incompetent on things he’s PROVED he’s good at. That’s plain and simple bashing.
You mentioned “Owl’s Well that Ends Well”?
He baked cookies and snacks that everyone loved, and praised him for it. Especially Pinkie, who works in a bakery. And that was after Twilight praised him fomr being such a great assistant that took care of everything perfectly. Oh, but its totally in-character for him to completely screw up a single Pie and destroy the whole kitchen in the process amirite? After all, he breathes fire while seenzing, so that means he’s too clumsy to bake or do anything else…even though we’ve seen him successfully doing so in the past.
Perfect Logic.
“Swarm of the Century”? He cleaned up the Library PERFECTLY. It was literally spotless.
His house-keeping skills are nothing but top-notch. But its totally in-character for him to destroy entire rooms while trying to clean somewhere else or even use a mop, right?
And I can’t believe you’re even blaming him for the his birthday incident, when he knew even less about his own species that his own mentor/sister/mother, and apparently the princess herself.
“Winter Wrap Up?” He wasn’t urging her to use magic after she explained to him why she couldn’t. “Boast Boasters?” He admires Twilight and wants other people to recognize her skills as well. Trixie’s boasting annoyed everyone, but it was especially annoying for him, because he knew for a fact that Twilight was better than this mare who was making fun of everyone else. Also, in case you forgot, Twilight’s reason for not wanting to use her magic there was the actual problem, not Spike.
And so on.
Spike is far from perfect, but he’s proved multiple times how talented he is at several things that “Spike at Your Service” completely screwed up for the sake of laughs. And he’s always been nothing but a loyal friend for Twilight, with a couple of pranks here and then being nothing compared to what he is normally subjected to.
I can’t believe you have the gall to tell others they’re using fanon or headcanon, when you’re the one purposedly ignoring canon while fixating on throwing unintended incidents (like his greed growth) and small pranks completely out of proportion just so you can justify your ridiculous hatred for this character.
@Niggoslav_Krawczyk
Man, stop throwin’ down level-headed sensible posts, you’re weirdin’ me out.
>>implying you wouldn’t gorge on ice cream for the same reason
Psssssh!
also i think the ‘oocness’ is easily attributable to, as Its once said, each of the mane six being a sixth of a ‘whole person’s persona,’ that is none of them really think through how whatever they do affects their friends outside of their specific element (and even two of those are questionable) because they’re too young and equestria is too utopia for them to have learned from consequence prior.
Spike is an even better example because he’s kind of an impulsive brat while at the same time being mature and taking his and his mentor’s scholarly pursuits seriously. In short they’re not ‘fully developed’ because they’re somewhat sheltered personality-wise, because they’re both still young and still obsessed with a particular career/life goal, so none of them are all that good at the ‘friending’ thing, like unleashing some poor unworldly Amish kid into Arizona Uni.
Trixie and Rainbow Dash were bragging to stroke their own egos. The Mare Do Well cosplay team were bragging to show Dash what bragging sounded like to those not bragging or being bragged about. You’re still free to dislike it, of course, but that is a rather crucial difference.
Yes a child. your words sir. He does not go to an school, and does royal duties. I’m pretty sure that takes more maturity than a child. Then again the whole town was in an uproar over an elementary school paper so whatevs.
@TexasUberAlles
“You’re trying to argue that he never fscks anything up EVAR!!1!”
No sir, just that he doesn’t “fscks stuff up all the time”.
Spike is more competent than you give him credit for. It is out of character when someone who is usually elegant in his duties is a total oaf for the sake of the episode. SAYS is an example.
For MMDW, the issue can date back to Boast Buster. They heckle Trixie, a show pony, for doing a performance, for boasting at a show. They’re hypocritically saying it’s wrong to bask in attention. The Mane 5 intentionally make RD jealous by basking in their performances as the Mare DO Well, upstaging, and rubbing it in to the max. That’s hypocritical on it’s own. That’s the issue most people have, they learn and write the lesson in the letter, then they end up repeating mistakes.
When Spike hits the bottom of the pile.
What kind of child is not at school, but does duties for the royal palace?
A… child? What kind of hypercompetent, never-fscks-up badass falls asleep on an ice floe in a lake or eats himself sick on ice cream because that’s Future Him’s problem? He is a little kid, not a special forces tier 1 operator.
Sidekicks does not equate sucking, when he was obviously eating the gems before making the cake
Getting excited and eating your primary ingredient before you’re done mixing the batter is a pretty sucky way to make a cake.
because he sure was a terrible friend in
Awesome. Did that make him a gooood friend when he was blackmailing gifts from everypony, or setting books on fire, or talking Twilight into trying to wrap up Winter with magic, or talking Twilight into getting in a Unicorn slapfight with Trixie, or framing the other assistant for mouse murder, or ripping off Twilight to “pet sit” the other assistant… man, that’s a partial list of times he’s badfriended Twilight. He’s a kid, they’re inconsistent. You’re trying to argue that he never fscks anything up EVAR!!1! and using it to rationalize saying he was “out of character” in SAYS, and you’re just demonstrably wrong on both counts.
more reviews and analysis online
Yes, I’ve seen them, and they’re all bullshit. The primary complaint against MMDW, for example, that the rest of the Mane Six are tricking and deceiving Dash and that somehow constitutes “out of character”? Bullshit, plain and simple. Go look up an episode list; over half of the episodes in the entire series involve some part of the Mane Six tricking and deceiving someone. When the thing you’re bitching about shows up in a majority of the show, that is the definition of in-character. Every damn thing that gets trotted out as supposedly OOC occurs across multiple episodes except the way they all shit on Pinkie’s chance at the national spotlight in MmmOTFE. What I see when I look at those reviews and analyses online is a bunch of butthurt fanboys who are anally offended that the show dared to contradict their headcanon about a particular character or situation.
What kind of child is not at school, but does duties for the royal palace? Please riddle me that.
Besides the burnt book, unless everything was taking care of first by Aloysius,(in which a nocturnal creature did his work during the day so that’s a faulty there but whatever) he appeared to take care of everything pretty well for the meteor shower, so I don’t understand how that’s him sucking.
Did you not see Bird in a Hoof? Where he was making Cakes with the Cakes? Just for Sidekicks does not equate sucking, when he was obviously eating the gems before making the cake.
He got startled and was hiccuping from the prank that Rainbow and Pinkie pulled. How is that a bad point for Spike??
Ah yes because he sure was a terrible friend in Lesson Zero, The Season 3 premiere, and even the Equestria Girls movie where he would be behind Twilight 100%. Ponyville is destroyed I don’t know how many times, so how is Spike destroying it an issue? If anything he’s strong enough to overcome his NATURAL instincts of greed, which is why Rarity was proud of him.
No there is not one “friggin” episode where the Mane 6 is out of character. I mentioned different episodes then MMDW and SAYS, those are a nice addition as well. You may check more reviews and analysis online for different views if you don’t believe me.
@Rotul7
Yes, that’s great and all, except for the part where it’s a bunch of absolute crap. Spike has been shown, over and over again, to be a child who gets more bumbling and incompetent the more excited and flustered he gets. Trying to headcanon him as some kind of hypercompetent Alfred Pennyworth secret agent badass is fine when you’re writing fanfic or whatever, but Actual Spike on the Actual Show fscks stuff up all the time; he sucked real bad at Library Assistant in Owl’s Well and Swarm Of The Century, sucked real bad at Make Cake (and Clever Plan, Bargain, and Sit Pets) in Just For Sidekicks, sucked real bad at Deliver Message in Griffon the Brush Off… all because he was, hey, excited and flustered. How awesome is he at anything when Rarity is around? He’s also failed hard at being a supportive friend to Twilight in at least a dozen episodes, and he broke Ponyville in Secret Of My Excess. You’re arguing headcanon, not the show.
There’s only one friggin’ episode in the series where the Mane Six are actually “out of character”, but none of you ever seem to notice it when you’re soiling yourselves about SAYS or MMDW supposedly being OOC even though everything in both of those episodes is backed up by appearances in plenty of other episodes, which is kindasorta the definition of “in character”.
Don’t you think it’s kind of strange that Spike who is regularly an elegant assistant that knows how to bake cookies and cake strangely forgets all that and causes wrecks and makes terrible pie? I’d like to think that it’s because he was so obsessed with helping somebody else, but I bet that’s even pushing it. The writers shouldn’t have to derail a character like that.
Also yes. I do feel Spike should be treated better especially with his episodes. It’s like they had something good going on, then they intentionally fail the last part of the race….Granted the Mane 6 themselves don’t treat each other like the best of friends either(MMMystery, Roundup, and Rainboom to name a few episodes.). All the relationships could use some work.