@Background Pony #E79D
Indeed I am.

@marinus18
Looks like you are a little leftie, aren’t you?

@Summerium-Kalimium
I have no idea what’s going on

@Summerium-Kalimium
I don’t care. I will say stuff I want to say.

@marinus18
This image is like 5 years old, why arr ya commenting here?

@El Mutanto
The EU though has many problems especially it’s neo-liberal origins and it’s exploitation of weaker nations. The richer ones keep the poorer ones poor rather than help them up. There also isn’t as much focus on the socialist aspects of unity and shared prosperity in the laws that are written and they in very large part exist to give advantage to corporations rather than protect them from external competition. The EU could provide protection for more experimental forms of corporate life and to experiment with corporate democracy and worker coops of many different types and nuances which France and Italy are already doing.
Some bad policies like the liberal railways need to be fixed and some more regulation needs to be put in place around migration to stop the abuse of weaker nations. The EU needs to redistribute resources by directly investing into poor countries. Not like with Greece by shouldering debt but by investing into the economy and build it up. To promote state companies as well as private ones to reduce our dependence and tie us closer together.

As much as I love the possibility of the EU and what it could be, right now it is a highly flawed institution that inhibits rather than promotes social unity and long term prosperity.

Europe has passed the point of no return. It will remain a diverse place but the idea of Europe as a single entity has taken hold in many, many people. I think we should focus on reforming it alongside more socialist lines and get rid of it’s problems as much as possible.

Unpopular opinion: I like the EU

@Background Pony #EACB  
Dude  
That is not cool  
It’s fine if you don’t like The EU (I’m kinda critical of it), But you’re taking it too far

@Derpy Whooves  
I understand, You are right. I will abstain from doing so. Just felt offended.

@El Mutanto  
@Background Pony #EACB  
Go to the political containment thread.
 
An image having a European flag in the background or an artist expressing “Happy National Holiday!” doesn’t mean it’s ok to discuss “Literal Soviet Doctrine”.
 
It’s like someone posted a Fourth Of July image with an American flag in it and everyone decided that meant it was ok to use the image to argue about origins of the cold war.

@Summerium  
I think they are just a far right supporter… So it seems. Every notion of cooperation and unity seems to them like it’s something that has been forced on someone and I think they want to have all benefits and don’t do anything to earn them. All that I have seen so far from them is very xenophobic.

Secular governing bodies are the only ones that have any kind of sense in this world. There is no such thing as state sponsored atheism. There exists State Atheism but it’s the domena of communist states or what tried to pass on as communist, like the Soviet Union or China. Currently only 4 countries are considered to have state atheism.
 
Compromise with different views that cultures carry with them. The economic moves are to even the field, not to power the so called elites. If it were that way, the younger members of the EU would not see a dime out of the whole union and that is not the case. You keep talking about a collective elite, are you feeling inferior in some way?
 
Middle Eastern Immigration is the same as American immigration and other things. It is not unlimited and Middle east is not a part of the European Union. If you are talking about the refugees, It is a wider problem and it will lead to further conflict, not necessarily in the EU.
 
Coexistance with different cultures. Germans, French, English (if they stay), Spanish and every other member state. Not sure why you count in Russians who are not part of the EU and don’t even pretend to try to be a part of it. Nor why do you mention Cossacks who are largely extinct and are a part of many different nations including Ukraine. I hope Ukraine will join us and then Cossacks will be a part of the larger culture.
 
Not sure what exactly do you mean by forced in afghans, arabs, turks. You throw in nations like if they’re a problem. They’re nations.
 
And Yes. I am okay with my culture changing, especially with outside influence if is benevolent. Also, you don’t seem to understand what is amalgamation. Not a FRENCH politician. An EUROPEAN politician. I don’t know what is wrong with you that you cannot remain civil for a simple conversation or discussion and cannot understand that some people have differing views than yours and are more cosmopolitan than you.
 
And how can you say that this is a forced cooperation when we ASKED TO BE A PART OF IT?! It’s not erasure, it’s amalgamation.
 
Also, as a citizen of a nation that suffered over 40 years of soviet occupation, I feel offended that you compare a democratic geopolitical body to a totalitarian terror regime that murdered countless thousands of my people and never faced responsibility for it.
 
You sir, are unfit for a civil conversation and you are close minded to the point of a concrete wall.
 
Please come back when you are brave enough to not hide under the BP monicker and when you are ready to engage in a civil conversation adhering to the netiquette.

@Background Pony #EACB  
Where do you get all these things?

The fact your not a secular government is a huge Plus in my opinion.  
Somewhere along the way Secular became “multi-religious / state sponsored atheism” rather than just separation of powers.
 
you keep tossing out these words like Compromise, coexistance, cultural amalgamation.. in what ways do you mean any of that?  
Compromise with what? Unlimited middle eastern immigration? With heavy handed economic moves to punish national ideals different from the collective elite?  
Coexistance with who? Germans? Russians? Cossacks? Perhaps. Forced in afgans, arabs, turks? No. they are calling for change in a nation not their own. With unrepentant communists / radical socialists? No, why they even be taken seriously.  
Cultural amalgamation? This one is massively telling. Cultures change and shaft slowly on their own according to the common people. To even consider this a factor means your okay with govermental bodies, worst of all INTERNATIONAL GOVERNMENT BODIES changing YOUR peoples culture intentionally. What the fuck is wrong with you? Why should a french politician have ANY say in how the common polish people live?
 
This is not coesistance or working together for a common good. Its forced co-operation and slow erasure of individual cultures. Hail the state, hate the Church. Praise the politician, shame the preacher. Salute the union, Boo the national.  
Literal Soviet Doctrine.

@Background Pony #EACB  
It’s an interesting and a funny notion but no, you’re not right. I love my country and I see this as the best course for it to take to remain secure and sound. Also: being a part of a Union, even if it would have more centralized governing body doesn’t mean we give up national, cultural or military security. On the contrary, we gain more of them.
 
Not sure why you see it as so bad. Compromise, coexistence and cultural amalgamation is the best way to attain a stable and peaceful group of people. It will help us create a great place where the bad cultural influences will be outgrown by those good ones where the cultures agree and there needs to be some body of rule and order that will keep it safe, be sure that all are on equal terms.
 
As for being not progressive enough: I am baffled at how someone nowadays can be defensive of people who abhor same sex marriages, partnership relationships, upholding citizen rights and making sure they are not mistreated or discriminated because of their religion, race, sex, orientation, gender or appearance. Fascists aren’t punished for being criminals against our very constitution.
 
The current state of affairs in my country are… poor in those matters. Not to mention that our current government is slowly becoming rogue and seems to be making all the decisions to just show that they can piss off the other members of the EU the most. The fact that we are not a fully secular state that respects it’s citizens is the worse offense.
 
Yeah… I think that the country could be more progressive. A lot.

To be more exact:  
The European Union institutions and its presidents are choosen as:
 
The European Parliament is elected by universal sufrage on elections every 5 years (being the next one on May this same year) and the president of it is chosen from it’s deputies.
 
The European Council is formed by the heads of state or goverment of the member states, it’s president is apointed on vote of the heads of state (which are elected on their respective states). The President of the European Council has no legislative or ejecutive powers.
 
The Council of the European Union is formed by the ministers of alñ member states and shares the legislative function with the Parliament. It is presided by one of tbe member states for a period of six months.
 
The European Commision has the executive power and it’s members are chosen by the Council for their qualities. The president is proposed by the council to the Parliament takimg note of the result of the elections. The Parliament then votes to apoint him. (Also, the parliament can impeach the president)
 
Edit: I forgot to mention that there’s other more complicated stuff like the way of apointing the High representative. But I didn’t saw necesary add them

Yeah I figured, thats why I mentioned Poland specifically.  
Your a vast minority in an otherwise great country.  
The simple fact of giving up national, cultural, and military security to a largely uncollected and elite group baffles me.  
If it was a defensive pact or confederation I would understand, but the EU has constantly been demanding more and more centralized power. A one size fits all approach to dozens of different cultures. Doomed to fail unless it reforms and steps way back power wise. But we all know it will not.  
The saying that your ‘not progressive’ enough is far more telling than you know. You dont give a toss about Poland nor its people, but your personal politics which are in line with what the EUs forcing.

@Background Pony #EACB  
The three presidents of the European Union are appointed in accordance with the EU constitution by the European Council which is comprised of the heads of state or government of the EU member states, along with the President of the European Council and the President of the European Commission.
 
The so called punishment is not done for not towing anyone’s personal political line but abstaining from what the countries agreed upon formerly. I wonder if you would be happy if you contractually gave someone money for building a better house and they instead did something other than what you two agreed upon.
 
We as citizens can vote them out of the office by appealing to our representatives who then can vote out the leaders. That’s how it works. Appointments, as well as the removal of incumbents, require a double majority support in the European Council. Which is in turn comprised of people who are elected by the nations.
 
And my “smug, superior, pseudo-puritanical rant” is with taken into account of what they did. Guess why? I can’t speak for Hungary, Serbia and the Eastern Europe in general but I know as a citizen of Poland that we are NOT progressive enough when we can be and that our current leaders and thus we by them deserve to be met with the so called “punishments”. I love my country and my nation but I won’t defend it when it is found wanting.
 
Also:
 
Please resort to being civil, I am not being rude to you. Your rude remarks however are not helping the matter.

>The European Union represents all the member states and it’s citizens even if they don’t like it. Hating on the Union is the same as hating it’s citizens.  
The heck are you smoking lad?  
The EU leaders, which is to say actual EU leaders not national ones, are completely UNELECTED! Chosen by established elites who punish any individual nation for not towing their personal political line.  
You as citizens CANNOT vote the EU leaders out of office.  
They have 0 accountability to the common people which is required for a democracy to work.  
How the hell you can have this smug, superior, Pseudo-puritanical rant when they have openly called for the punishing of Poland, Hungary, Serbia, and eastern Europe in general for not being ‘progressive’ enough is beyond me.

@Background Pony #EACB  
I think you are missing the point. Though from what I see maybe the shadow of anonymity which is the guise of a background pony is the case here as it seems like a wall that bars reasoning from going through.
 
The EU is like it is because the people that create it will it to be like that. It’s not a totalitarian Regime, it’s a democracy built and governed by elected individuals that represent their member states, though it is not yet a fully fledged country.
 
EU is the way it is not because of rogue politicians that have their own agendas. I do know that there are some like that and that there are corrupt ones, but even then, they are elected and represent their people. The vote of the majority is what leads the system. There are no rogue politicians there who showed out of nowhere and suddenly decided to screw all the citizens of the country.
 
The reason why the protests against the articles were so minuscule when compared to ACTA is because the people (or rather most of them) of the EU wanted them to pass. You might not agree with that, you might feel betrayed because you are the one who is on the short end of the stick right now, but acting like you do is no way to change the present state.
 
When a Nation passes a law that you think is bad for you but you are a minority you have three options:
 

Oh yeah spreading hate against the EU completely means a hate against all Europeans…  
If anything hate of the EU as the corrupt system it is just means an adoration of the European citizens. A legitimate concern for their well being.

@Derpy Whooves  
We can’t give likes for comments so I’ll give you a heart <3

@El Mutanto  
@Summerium  
This is actually a European based site. There’s just a tiny handful of people (like that BP) who seem determined to spread hatred for all of Europe and all Europeans, regardless of … well, anything, it seems.
 
@Background Pony #ED9C  
How does it feel to be a “anti-EU user” on a European site? I’m guessing it feels off topic and rule-breaking, because … man, you really insist on turning everything even remotely connected to Europe into a soapbox for whichever end of the world scenario you’re pushing today. Please stop turning any image with a picture of an EU flag in it into an argument over article 13, ok?

@Summerium  
It’s like how I thought at first that most people here were right-leaning/pro-Trump (being from the United States) but they’re actually not. Like the fandom, it’s pretty mixed as a whole.