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Champions of Equestria

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Background Pony #D767
Deletion reason: Rule #4 - use your filters, stop creating drama on Discord images
Ohvist

@Background Pony #D767  
About that “Safety of her kingdom”… it still confirms that Equestria is indeed a kingdom that is Celestia-centric in every way possible. It’s foreign dealings, treatment of other races, etc. all revolve around Celestia in some fashion or other, and due to having been in control over it for 1000 years, what makes you think that it will survive into Twilights’ reign?
 
It doesn’t as the G5 movie attests to. As Joshua Graham once said: “Only Caesar can lead the Legion.” And with how little in the way Twilight was effectively trained in running the government as shown by The Royal Swannifying, and how she seems to have no self-determination since becoming a Princess, and how she hasn’t tried to do anything except nod and agree to whatever is said; and that Celestias’ constant approval of saying that “You will Play Your Part” can be uplifting, but in another way show that it is just hollow words motivated by a mare that cares only for Destiny. It isn’t much of a surprise that Twilight Sparkle is nothing more than just a puppet at this point due to how she is so impressionable to agree to whatever is said at her face regardless of how valid it even is.
 
“The Legion dies with Caesar. What follows is the last steps of a man who does not yet realize, that he is walking dead…”
-Joshua Graham, Fallout: New Vegas
Background Pony #D767
@Ohvist  
What’s up with the making good guys out to be worse than they are, while making bad guys victims on this site?
Background Pony #D767
@Ohvist  
Celestia is a good pony she is kindhearted and cares about the safety of her kingdom and twilight’s growth
Ohvist

@CronoM  
And that “being unconscious” is no different to what happened with Princess Luna having been sealed within the moon for 1000 years. On the surface, it is very terrible. Beneath that surface it is downright hellish. Princess Luna was unconscious for all of it, but behind the scenes, Princess Celestia had either been working to make herself look infallible or had allowed others to constantly drag her own sister through the mud for the sake of Celestias’ ego. Not even getting into the fact that there are two Holidays’ that serve to elevate Celestia while at the same time demonizing Luna in some capacity. Only now do you begin to realize that Lunas’ stint as the so-called Nightmare Moon was merely her lashing out at the cruel world that she found herself in; one where she was meant to help rule alongside her sister, only for the loyal subjects to flock to Celestia for guidance and companionship while ignoring Lunas’ every attempt for notice or recognition. Then when she tried to approach Celestia for advice, all she did was offer up hollow words citing in much the same way as with Twilight centuries later “She will do her part” and be done with it thinking that she had contributed some sense of closure in Luna. Abandoned and isolated, Luna fell as she did into her loneliness-fueled sorrow to become “Nightmare Moon” as Celestia witnessed it. But instead of apologizing to her and begging for Luna to calm down, what does Celestia do instead? She issues commands as an impassable ruler, further cementing her sisters own hatred.
 
Then what does Celestia do for the next 1000 years following her sisters’ banishment? Does she try to educate the populace into caring about the night? Or to learn about Princess Luna as an individual? No. She carries on her own and further shapes Equestria into her image while Lunas’ lost to history as nothing more than a boogeyman rarely spoken of. And after her return 1000 years later? What is the first thing that Celestia says to Luna? Does she offer up her apologies for mistreating her sisters’ emotions? No. She just asks for Luna to accept her friendship. There are no emotions being addressed between Celestia and Luna over what had happened, and then we get nothing at all from the Princess of The Night until Season 2 where she attends Ponyville for the Nightmare Night festival and experiences much of the same alienation that had driven her over the edge beforehand 1000 years ago… no, wait. That’s not right…
 
“But that doesn’t mean everything that wasn’t there before Nightmare Moon isn’t still going through her head.” There was a slight pause as Twilight let out a tiny laugh. “Heh, if anything, it’s even worse!”
The last bit that Twilight doled out made Celestia’s cry that such a thing wasn’t true die on her lips. The fear snuffed it out. “What’s that supposed to mean?” the goddess asked with a frown.
Twilight actually rolled her eyes and looked up at Celestia like she was a student who wasn’t paying attention in class. “You have a holiday celebrating your victory over Nightmare Moon, and another one that has foals offering up a candy tribute so that she doesn’t come down and kill them!” the little unicorn exclaimed. “The ponies of Equestria don’t just feel apathetic towards Luna anymore, they outright fear and hate her! And they’ve done so for generations! Everypony was sent to bed without supper at least once while being told that one day Nightmare Moon would come for them if they didn’t do their homework. Do you think that’s just going to disappear because of your say so? Because Luna looks different?
The lavender unicorn let out a mirthless laugh. “You stupid old nag. During her absence, you have taken what drove Luna to become Nightmare Moon in the first place and made it a thousand times worse! Nopony is ever going to appreciate her, nopony’s ever going to love her-”
A tiny spark of anger lit in Celestia’s heart at Twilight’s words and she stepped forward and brought her hoof down hard enough to crack the stone beneath them. “I LOVE HER!” the alicorn shouted back at the unicorn.
It was anger that Twilight returned in earnest. “AND IT’S ALWAYS ABOUT YOU, ISN’T IT!?” she screeched. “Always about what you want, always about you, you, YOU! Nopony else matters but CELESTIA! Who cares if everypony hates Luna? As long as Celestia likes her, it’s all fine! Who cares if she’s always alone, as long as Celestia is happy? What does it matter if she’s miserable as long as CELESTIA GETS WHAT SHE WANTS?”
-Take Two, Chapter 8 by LordBrony2040, Published in 2014
 
Now with all of THAT out of the way, try to imagine the same scenario playing out with Cozy Glow. Being released into a world hundreds if not thousands of years later, a world where everypony that she knew of and cared about no longer live, a world that actively hates and despises her for her actions that she did so long ago. She is not coming out of rehab or prison to re-enter society again as a changed person, she was on “Pause” and is now on “Resume”, just like with Princess Luna. Only this time, I bet that she will likely end her life having awoken into an absolute hell that Twilight had created, a long death that Discord had orchestrated all along and that Celestia and Luna had agreed to commence.
CronoM

@Background Pony #FAB0  
One of the creators saw Cats Dont Dance when they were growing up, created a character based on Darla, and arbitrarily decided most people wouldn’t care if she met a terrible fate.
 
I know I’m giving an over simplified and cop out answer, and I apologize for that, but its also most likely the most true answer.
 
 
@Background Pony #FAB0  
You are correct, considering the circumstances of Discord’s awakening and his anger, being turned into stone does not make you fall into a sleep until you are unpetrified.
WaynePonePone
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@Ohvist  
Wow, Discord’s actions were actually much more heinous than I thought.
 
 
All these comments just brought back why I grew tired of the show in later seasons. If it weren’t for how enjoyable it is to see the characters at all, the whole show would’ve been unbearable. It is unfortunate this is a simple show about a magical world full of fantastical elements and it is obligatory those fantastical developments and changes must happen, which would definitely have holes in no matter how much they try. This show is honestly good enough if the characters literally just live their lives normally and confront common everyday challenges.  
It’s kind of weird. I have a lot of complicated feelings about this show. I don’t know if I should love it or dislike it, but I definitely don’t hate it. I guess just like any other show, there’s something to love about and something to feel shaky about.
CronoM

@Ohvist  
That passage from Alicornundrum had more character development in Twilight in several paragraphs then basically the entire show did for her. Twilight literally has NO self agency in the show.
 
I’ll give the comics credit, Twilight makes a similar revelation in the mirror world arc and has some pretty good character development talking with Luna and Good King Sombra. It wasnt perfect, but at least she wasn’t Celestia’s lapdog 24/7 like in the show.
Ohvist

@Jacalope  
The series Season 2 onwards seems to meander quite a lot and leave it to the last minute to try and fail at doing anything that would stand out and be memorable. Prime examples of this includes the Twilicorn schtick which started this whole nightmare in that there was literally no build-up or hints dropped about it happening, coupled with Season 3 being cut in half because “Hasbins” wanted to market their “My Little Monster Bratz Descendants” as a movie, which further compounded the issue regarding why Twilight was made an Alicorn in the first place because we spend the entirety of the movie in the Human World without giving us a chance to get used to Twilicorn.
 
It wouldn’t be until years later that we would finally get a proper sequel to the events of Magical Mystery Cure in the form of the 2017 My Little Pony Movie. All you need to do is take out all of the Season 4-7 content of the movie and it’d serve as a good sequel to Magical Mystery Cure and properly give us some insight into Twilights’ psyche having assumed a level of responsibility and pressure of command.
 
Following Season 3, Season 4 continues the trend of meandering as Twilight struggles to find her place in Equestria as a Princess without even trying to do anything that would contribute to that title in any meaningful way on her own, in a sense after achieving Ascendancy, she ends up losing a bit of her autonomy in the process and wouldn’t get anything actually done until Season 8 with the School of Friendship, and then Season 9 happens and all of a sudden Twilight is thrown into the deep end with being pressured by both the other Princesses and her friends into ruling over all of Equestria as the Royal Sisters step down.
 
“But did you ever ask if that was what I wanted?”
The throne room fell silent. Twilight repeated herself. “Well? Did you? Even once? Did you ever ask me if I wanted to become a princess or an alicorn?”
The silence was telling. “No. You didn’t,” Twilight answered for her. “You sprang it on me. Just like you sprang my… ascendance on me. It was nothing I ever wanted. Nothing I ever even IMAGINED wanting. To be a Princess? To wield power over others? To be lifted above and away from my family and friends? I never wanted any of this, no sane pony ever would.”
“And you object to being ascended?”
“Do I look stupid?” Twilight looked Celestia in the eye. “What I resent is… not being forewarned. Not being made a part of the decision. And I KNOW that there were like, a billion variables that you couldn’t account for,” she said, rolling her eyes. “I know that ascension is a crapshoot. Heck, I know that the other Bearers stand a good chance of ascending just by being on the periphery of the fallout— and don’t you think that I didn’t let them know it once I figured it out!’ she dropped her eyes unhappily. “But that doesn’t change the fact that I feel left out of the decision.”
“Then why did you follow so eagerly in my hoofsteps, my faithful student?” Celestia asked. “Why did you become my pupil at all?”
“Because I wanted to study from you! I wanted to learn from you! I wanted to study magic under the most powerful being in Equestria– to learn things no other pony knew! I did it because I loved learning, I loved magic! Not because I wanted a throne!”
“Is this not what you wanted?”
“I was already DOING what I wanted!” Twilight Sparkle shouted, stamping her hoof angrily. “I was a scholar, I lived in a home filled with books, in a town that welcomed me that was filled with friends who were dear to me! Maybe it wasn’t as glamorous as being a princess in Canterlot, but I could have lived my entire life happily as a librarian in Ponyville!”
“Look at yourself, Twilight,” Celestia said. “You are an alicorn now. You should be happy with this, should you not?”
“Of course I should. Every little filly wants to be a princess, right?” Twilight snorted disdainfully, brow furrowed, refusing to turn around. “That’s what everypony tells everypony else, without ever asking the little filly.”
-Alicornundrum, Chapter 26 By Ralph “Reality Check” Hayes Jr. Published in 2013
Jacalope
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@Background Pony #D767  
When i said “discordant process” wasn’t in a very good sense because if you see the leaks, everything is different, like the context about why Discord is Grogar in the original version is a little bit better despiste if you see the stupidity of that context.
 
But here’s the thing, entire season 9 has been changed a lot at the point the writers only put the essencial points but without any good context.  
  • Celestia and Luna will leave the throne: Why? No cares. Fuck any good reason to leave Twilight to be the queen.  
  • Discord disguises as Grogar and makes an villain alliance: Why? No fucking cares. No cares if Discord in character would have humillated Tirek and Chrysalis for hurting him in the past instead of leaving them breathing in a good place or not cares if Discord growns as a character, no cares if Chrysalis itself would have made that alliance instead of putting Grogar in it, just put that motherfucking plot twist.  
  • There are new Mane 6: Well, why not? we just put 6 new characters in season 8, we should use them for something even if we cannot write so much stories about them.
Background Pony #D767
@Jacalope  
I do found the grogar story a deconstruction of discords being a trolling mentor. And its funny u use words like chaos and discordant story telling because discord being a spirit of chaos is exactly why they came up with this storyline according to Jim full
Jacalope
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Noodles > Everything
@nightshroud96  
Celestia and Luna still won aganist Discord… but i can agree everything around Cosmos in the past was unnecessarily cumbersome for a story that fits better in the present instead of making thousands of contradictions to the past and that raises many questions.
 
And talking about ignoring ending of the end, I would not blame any writer if they pretend that this arc does not exist since beyond 2 simple ideas that are another revenge of the trio (the most thoughtful) and a story that explores the self-destructive behavior of Discord as part of his internal conflict as an immortal entity chaotic, it is simply not a story from which things can be rescued and it is simply better to ignore it instead of fanning all controversy for a story that were simply scribbles of a discordant production process.
nightshroud96
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@CronoM  
The book about the royal sisters said they were naturally born Alicorns.  
What Luna and Celestia meant was it seems like a ascended alicorn and a non-alicorn producing a alicorn offspring was something they never saw before. And the fact no natural alicorns were born after Equestria was formed.
 
Honestly because the show already has some faults doesn’t give any other issues and retcones a free-pass. It really doesn’t make them ok at all.  
And the Cosmos arc’s retconning of Luna and Celestia’s achievement of beating Discord is one huge retcon that is a major problem.
 
 
@Jacalope  
Its actually a bad idea to ignore the other stuff honestly.  
Its like ignoring a wound that is inflicted badly. Leave it unattended and it will end up hurting yourself such as getting infected, etc.  
They NEED to address those massive issues like the Grogar mess and at least try to fix them. Ignoring them isn’t really going to fix anything.
 
There’s a difference between “the winner writes the story” and outright making anything we see at all from either side a fake by saying “everyone’s memories of that event got altered, lol”. The memory altering thing is much worse than the winner getting to write what happened.
CronoM

@Jacalope
 
@nightshroud96  
To be fair, the main show was just an absolute mess of retcons and cop-out p plotlines from the getgo.
 
“Twilight became an alicorn, meaning she’s destined to be a princess-….oh wait, Flurry got born with it even though Celestia said that was impossible, we never get an explanation for that, and Cozy got it just with a high magical upgrade, so there was never anything special about being an alicorn anyway, just an artificial magical ascension. Okay.
 
“Oh no, Discord betrayed all of Equestria! How will this impact him being seen as reformed-…oh, Discord gave Celestia some flowers. And everyone forgives him the second ater. Okay.”
 
 
“Chrysalis has to defeat every character except the unlikely heroes so the unlikely characters can intervene. How did she manage it…-Oh, she defeated and captured them with her grunts all off screen, including Luna and Celestia herself. Okay.”
 
“Almost all the changeling episodes show that the changelings are a hive culture where all of them are born and live as hissing monsters or lying, malicious sociopaths while disguised with Thorax being born as an exception. How will they reform an entire species….Oh, they all reform in a heartbeat and gain completely different mentalities, morals and sense of culture. Okay.”
 
“Twilight’s the main character right? That means she’s going to go through some major character development throughout the series right….Oh, she gets declared a princess and an obvious heir to Celestia end of Season 3, and she just learns the same lessons over and over again while never leaving her comfort zone of following Celestia’s orders even once, and then just redundently becomes an heir at the end of Season 9, even though some writers clearly had different opinions about her outliving her friends….okay.”
 
And thats just the tip of the iceberg.  
The canon structure of MLP was a mess in the main show, lets not kid ourselves.
 
Sometimes the comics seem more coherent in the long run, even when they do present more continuity problems.
Jacalope
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Noodles > Everything
@nightshroud96
 
Actually Whitley can:  
“Okay, we cannot ignore Twilight became into the ruler of Equestria, BUT, we will not mention any detail about ending of the end, because even without those episodes, Twilight still be a ruler.” Just like sins of past. It’s canon in Spider-man but nobody mentions it, even the same creator of that arc in a comic makes a joke about that.
 
And about how erasing memories damages the storytelling because “no one can trust to the past events” the simple idea that the past is seen under the eyes of the heroes instead of giving a complete paronama where the motivations of the villain are known already gave the idea of ​​not trusting the past at all until knowing all the context. An idea that is not really bad since a writer could play with the narrative of “the winner writes the story” in order to give more complexity to a story by giving gray points.
 
The only problem with the Cosmos arc is that it was simply unnecessary to make Discord and Cosmos meet in the past rather than the present. Since in itself, it was much more interesting to put it in the present to use the toxic relationship as a way to symbolize the temptation to malicious behaviors and Cosmos embodying Discord’s deepest fears about his status as a draconequus.
 
But no, it had to be a story where several characters had to participate in an epic adventure instead of a too personal story where only 3 characters were necessary. Discord, Cosmos and Fluttershy.
nightshroud96
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Background Pony #D767  
Tirek was in Tartarus already, so he was already getting his due.(Thus Discord has no reason to go after him till the stupid retirement crap Celestia pulled caused him to pull this infamous plan)  
Most likely everyone else was on the lookout for Chrysalis but the massive problem is Discord shown his powers lets him EASILY find Chrysalis and easily could have sent her to Tartarus anyway.
 
@Jacalope  
Sadly Ending Of The End can’t be ignored due to Twilight is now ruler and Luna/Celestia gave up their thrones. That glaring mark pretty much makes none of season 9 to be able to be ignored.
 
@Jacalope  
The bit about Discord cutting out Cosmos pics actually did damage by showing the arc is canon.  
If Cosmos never happened then why does Discord even have pics of hers in the first place?  
The only way to fix the damage that arc has doe is by directly contradicting it. But problem is due to the retcon that arc done via “Luna and Celestia’s memories were altered, here’s what really happened” opened a major can of worms in MLP’s storytelling. Since now any lore we see can’t be trusted due to they can just go “Psych! Their memories were altered and here’s what really happened!”.  
For example, the upcoming issue showing Luna and Celestia’s past with the kraken is damaged by this retcon Cosmos had done due to now what we see of the sisters might be a big fat lie. Like what we see in that comic issue might be altered memories too. The retcon the Cosmos arc done damages the trust between reader and comic since now anything can be a big fat lie via memory altering crap.
Jacalope
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Noodles > Everything
@Background Pony #D767  
She didn’t make reference to Grogar. Only she see weird Discord is in the castle because… well… it’s history lesson to know Discord conquest Equestria many years ago. And it’s more clear that intention because Discord is cutting Cosmos’ pics because of that retcon where Cosmos is the actual villain and not Discord (i still hate that recton).