Automotive enthusiasts?

UGH!  
Crossovers have become cancer to the automotive industry.
 
Remember when coupes, sedans, and station wagons ruled the roads?

Touchscreens in cars are not a new concept.
 
Check out this 1987 Buick Riviera
 
Also, I’m into sport sedans and midsize.  
When it comes to midsize. Nothing looks better than the current generation Mazda 6 IMO.  

 
FCA seems to have gotten ride of their FWD sedans in favour of crossovers. The only sedans they make now are the Dodge Charger and the Chrysler 300, all of them have AWD options and offroad capabilities.  
I’m guessing they’re cutting close into a territory Subaru specializes on.

Can you not post three times in a row? It’s basic etiquette.

@kleptomage  
Sorry, just a nasty habit of mine I got from PM speaking.
 
Anyways.
 
GM should really try to bring back Pontiac to compete with FCA’s Dodge brand for the youth market.
 
Anyone here into full-size 4 door cars?  
 
 

 
There aren’t a lot of them on the market except in the luxury department anymore.  
They used to be the backbone of North American auto world. Often referred to as “land yachts”.

@SeraphimDawn  
I wouldn’t say crossovers themselves are bad, just low effort ones. (Even if I would prefer to see more wagons.) Try to make it interesting and you can come up with something cool like the Stelvio or the Cherokee, phone it in and you wind up with an unmemorable blob like the Captiva or the Trax.
 
 
@SeraphimDawn  

 
In general, yes, but for that picture, in order: yes, because RWD V-8, no because CVT, and maybe?
 
And as much as I like them, I’m not sure I’d say a Charger really has off-road abilities, unless we’re talking about this one:  
 
Then maybe.

@Flying Pancake  
I won’t doubt crossovers’ practicality and I understand why they are the preferred vehicle segment in today’s mobile world, especially in places like Canada with their AWD capabilities.
 
But do they really have that much more cargo space over hatchbacks and sedans? Most compact SUVs, which are the most popular segment right now, only carry up to five passengers, as much as sedans. In an urban and suburban setting.
 
Also. What exactly is a BMW X6?  
 
Are these types of cars really necessary? They’re basically SUVs that look very much like bulky sedans.
 
If I recall, Acura also had something similar few years back.  
The ZDX  
 
Which didn’t sell well of course.  
Looks like an oversized coupe that doesn’t have anymore interior space than a real coupe.
 
On the Dodge Charger.  
I see a lot of them in police fleets.  
Police departments are still one of the major markets for fullsize sedans. As those old Crown Victoria cars age, they’re starting to replace them with Ford Tauruses.

@SeraphimDawn  
I’m not sure it’s the cargo space that draws people to crossovers; like you said, they really aren’t bigger than comparable wheelbase hatchbacks. I always see it mentioned that their higher seating position makes people feel safer than they do in cars, for whatever reason. The other thing that I suspect is a factor is their ground clearance, or rather, modern cars’ lack thereof.
 
To illustrate:  

 
The modern Challenger won’t be able to put its nose over a curb, might high center on speed bumps, could take body damage from a pothole, and is going have serious trouble getting into a lot of parking lots and driveways without dragging its chin across the ground. The classic Challenger won’t have a problem with any of that, and it’s about as far off the ground as a modern crossover. Start designing cars for those sorts of concerns, and I bet they’d be better able to compete with crossovers.
 
And I really have no idea what X6 shaped vehicles are. I’ve been calling them “Eagles,” after these:  

@SeraphimDawn  
lol we already talked about the Buick Reatta that had a touchscreen. I’d love to have a piece of classic car like that :)
 
 
@Flying Pancake  
lol have you seen Regular Car reviews of that Charger? it isn’t good at off-road because the tires are so tight up against the body :D
 
 
@SeraphimDawn  
I’m a big fan of practical crossovers, I mostly like minivans though. I know minivans are not very popular, but they do everything a crossover can’t do!
 
btw,  
Fullsize sedans are the best cars, they’re a huge part of American car history, literally!

@Flying Pancake  
There was one episode of Top Gear where Richard Hammond couldn’t get a Pagani Zonda out of a parking garage without scraping the front bumper, which was naturally carbon fiber and impossible to repair. I can and have driven my old car over a curb with minimal hassle. I couldn’t do that with any current sporty car. If only cars had adjustable height suspensions that raised automatically at low speeds.

@SeraphimDawn
 
I’m mainly a Wagon fan. Crossovers don’t look awful for me but they don’t have long wheelbases either (EDIT: do they? I’m comparing to the largest 1971-1996 Wagons.) which is what I’d prefer in a car that’s used on the road. SUVs, depending on the type, kinda qualify for me as a “Wagon” - just a truck-based kind instead of sedan-based kind E.G. a 90s Suburban.
 
@Flying Pancake
 
@RainbowDash69
 
AS RD69 said, the Defiance Charger’s tires are too big for any lengthy tire life. They scrape against the body a lot.

@kleptomage  
well if you had a Tesla, they can be programmed to raise and lower automatically at gps coordinates ;)
 
 
@BarryFromMars  
I’m loving every Suburban, they are all based on the full-size truck platform, no sedan-based nonsense here! (I am also so very happy the Suburban still has the column shifter, keeping that good legacy)
 
Might as well I put the Defiance Charger video here just for fun. maybe it will spark some interesting opinions :3

@SeraphimDawn  
Okay, I think you bring up some interesting things I forgot to reply to…  
yeah! Pontiac was good for enthusiasts, they had practical cars that had strong souls, GM does care about the youth market with the Chevy Sonic and Spark. Youth market people would like cheap and small city cars
 
I like the picture of that Chrysler 300 you have. I’ve always liked that car, considering its significance. There’s a video on youtube about it where someone said it marked a significant change for Chrysler to a more bold, retro-futuristic design. It’s true, the car is totally different than all others and had a gorgeous, elegant styling that was also bold. (even though the interior sucked) I personally would love a 2016 300 because it still holds that bold and elegant look!

@RainbowDash69  
I don’t like what Telsa represents. It will be a sad day for humanity when everyone is transported everywhere by getting into an autonomous electric box and inputting a destination.

Some crossovers look amazing, and are wonderful drivers. SUVs are not like the clunky truck based vehicles you see in the 90s anymore. They drive more like sedans now.
 
Speaking of crossovers. I’ve always wondered what the purpose of Nissan Juke are. They’re small and only slightly taller than a typical hatchback. They also look awkward.
 
 
@RainbowDash69  
Minivans are often scoffed by motorheads for being bulky and clumsy, for those who resigned themselves to family hauling. Especially in this day and age when fabulous looking and high performing SUVs are hot. But they are some of the most useful vehicles on the market. Comfortable ride, excellent cargo space. Some people actually live in them. And minivans offered at the present don’t look half bad either. Chrysler Pacifica and Kia Sedona look the best.  
My dad used to drive a 1997 Mercury Villager. He had it for years until he transitioned to a 2009 Lexus RX 350.
 
@RainbowDash69  
I just don’t feel that “sportiness” feeling from Chevy cars, as I do from Pontiacs. Pontiac had some of the most sick looking cars. My dad also used to own a 1995 Pontiac Sunfire sedan. Amazingly, I still see some of those cars driven on the road today.
 
I think the car that most Pontiac fans fawn over was the G8. Often considered to be the “poor man’s BMW 3s”.

Regular Car Reviews: 1987, 1993 Fox Body Mustang
 
Does anyone remember when the Mustang didn’t look like a Mustang?
 
@kleptomage  

 
Shudders…  
Too bad urban dwelling millennials are accelerating that process. They prefer to UBER their way around. By showing an overall lack of passion for driving and cars compared to their previous generation counterpart. Remember when owning and driving cars were considered an achievement and right of way? A transition to adulthood?  
It seems very dystopian if you ask me.
 
Where everything is automated, and we lack control over our own lives. The machines taking control pretty much every aspects of our lives.  
People are losing their independence and individualism.
 
@race’emhard  

 
A lot thanks to former Audi auto designer Peter Schreyer.
 
They make excellent cars for their value, especially the Kia Optima. Which comes with a lot of amenities that usually only come in luxury brand cars. But they’re still lacking in the sports department. And I think Kia should really get rid of their ugly text based logo for their stylized K logo they use on their Korean cars.

@kleptomage
 
At least there may not be as many car wrecks. (Then again relying on it entirely’s kind of stupid too if there’s a “power outage”.) People have nearly come into my lane from the opposing direction maybe eight or nine times and three times now I’ve been passed on a double line up a hill where there’s absolutely no visibility if there’s another car coming. I never wrecked in any of those instances as I honked the horn for the oncoming cars and slowed down for the risk takers. Oh and yes, the third one who passed me up a hill was towing a trailer in a pickup truck and if I didn’t slow down there may have been a three-car collision as there was actually an oncoming car not far after he/she passed. I’ve given some thought of buying dashboard + rear cameras for possibly capturing some footage of this sort of driving.
 
Since we’re somewhat on the subject here’s a topic that has a few photos of a 70s LTD Wagon that a drunk wrecked into a tree. He survived though the car stopped by the time the tree went into the middle of the front seat area:
 
http://www.stationwagonforums.com/forums/threads/wrecked-wagon-pics-i-took-in-1984.43457/
 
The forum doesn’t allow you to view the pics in higher resolution unless you’ve registered though, I tried posting them here and they didn’t come through. Oh well.

@BarryFromMars  
I believe better driving education and law enforcement would do more for public safety than automation. Autonomous cars won’t solve the problem of people being stupid and reckless, only force their stupidity into other outlets. Abdicating personal responsibility to technology is not the answer. If I were you I’d get those cameras and try to bust the dangerous drivers by submitting footage to the police. Get them to do something more useful than sitting around with a radar gun trying to catch cars going 1 mph over the limit. If the worst happens and you do crash, you’ll have evidence that it was the other driver’s fault.

@RainbowDash69  
@BarryFromMars  
Hadn’t seen the review before, but I can see how the tire size would cause problems. I do like the idea of a more functional rally/off-road/Mad Max Charger, though.
 
 
@kleptomage  
On the one hand, I respect Tesla for trying to make an electric car that’s actually a decent practical vehicle. On the other, their “autopilot” system isn’t something I’d touch with a ten foot pole (and it shouldn’t have been called that in the first place), and they seem to be obsessed with including pointless features that ruin their cars, like the X’s doors or the 3’s glass windshield/roof. (And electric cars still aren’t practical.)

@kleptomage
 
Actual education of seeing real mangled bodies (results of reckless driving) is a fine way for people to realize perils of dumb driving. I myself have seen many now and previously had nightmares that scared me a lot but they’re educational in hindsight. Still, what can be done against the “My little angel’s scared so I’m not going to let him know stupidity can kill him” mentality? They NEED to leave with their lives changed for the better. I’ll look into cameras, thanks. I want something with awesome resolution so I don’t leave without the license plate number.
 
While we’re on the subject yes, I’m a bit of a fan of observing what can happen so I’m not a dunderhead about car wreck results. I’m not going to post any graphic images here but there are plenty on the internet if you seek out fatality pics even back to the 1930s. How about all the safety awareness films from the 1930s-1970s? Hank Hill may have told you about it before but the original 1960s Red Asphalt is a pretty convincing film for its time. See the Corvair wreck in the end, brutal. There’s “Signal 30”, “Wheels of Tragedy” and “Highways of Agony” to name a few more.
 
Also, I don’t recall the title offhand but there was a 1940s Chevrolet film touting driving safety but they had the cars tailgating to the point where it looked like there wasn’t even 4 feet between the cars. Oh how times have changed.

The only driving regulation we need, arguably, is “don’t slam into the other people or their cars.” That’s simple and easy to understand instead of overly complicated state-legislated traffic codes.

@SeraphimDawn  
yep, the youth don’t really like four-banger small displacement engines. the G8 was a historically great car for Pontiac, too bad it was just a rebranded Australian car :P
 
 
@kleptomage  
It is true the “auto-piolit” mode is discouraging to enthusiasts, but Tesla has done great engineering in creating fast cars with the Ludicrous mode. I still think there’s room for auto-racing if Tesla applies itself in that area. I’d love to experience that “instant torque” madness with a P100d sometime, making sure that I’m holding a steering wheel of course.

@SonGokuMonkey  
lol that sounds so simple, but it isn’t.
 
hm, I wonder if radar-guided cruise control has done any good in preventing car crashes

@SeraphimDawn
 
Personally, the only reason i don’t drive is because i can’t afford the license right now. the whole driving school-obtaining driver’s license proccess costs upwards from R$ 2000, and i’m not in a condition to spend that much at once.

@Flying Pancake  
Don’t electric cars only have a range of about 300 miles? I guess that would be ok for city driving but definitely not for long commutes or traveling without a large network of charger stations.
 
The X’s doors are a solution in search of a problem. Just a gimmick to raise the price.
 
@BarryFromMars  
I drove by a crash about a month ago. A car had rear ended a big work truck and there were two dark bulges in the car’s shattered windshield like dents in foil. It looked like the occupants had not been wearing their seat belts and were thrown forward. You’d think nobody would need to be told to use a seat belt in 2016. It’s so senseless.
 
All the fear I needed when I started driving was the knowledge that I’m piloting a two ton chunk of metal down a narrow road very close to other fast and heavy chunks of metal.
 
I don’t remember very much about my driving class except that the teacher was a huge Frank Sinatra fan who spoke like he was displaced from the 1940’s. The class only covered the rules of the road. We didn’t learn practical things like how to drive a manual or how to drive safely in snow.
 
@SonGokuMonkey  
My Dad always told me there are two fundamental rules for driving:
 

@kleptomage  
The Model S P100D can do 315; I think that’s the best range available right now. But then that’s going to be affected by weather conditions, climate control settings, and any other electrical devices that you might have running. And it takes 30 minutes to recharge it to 80%, if you’re at one of Tesla’s fast charge stations. So realistically any long trip would have to consist of one 275-300 mile leg followed by 200-225 mile legs with half hour charging stops in between. I wouldn’t call that practical yet, but I will give them credit that Tesla electrics are better than they used to be. (And in some cases, still are; the VW e-Golf only has 86 miles of range. Driving that thing must be stressful beyond all reason.)
 
The only “electric” car I’d consider practical right now is the BMW I3 Rex, but that’s because of its gas generator. Pure electrics will either have to have massive range improvements, massive charge time improvements, or both before I’d consider one a good choice for anything but a city car.