Dragon Ball Thread

TBH i would be fine if Super ended with the Universe Survival ark and they made a new series set after end of Z with allot of focus put on the new heroes with Goku FINALLY getting master Roshied and no longer being able to keep up with the new threat that Pan and Uub are put up against,

@Thanotos Omega  
I’m honestly getting real tired of Goku. He’s just so boring.

@HJSDGCE  
indeed, hence the character development from being forced to face the same fate his own entors did, but doing so much younger than them,

I like the thought of Goku becoming a mentor. And really have him teach someone else fighting, like Uub or Pan. But he isn’t in retiring age yet. At the moment he is still in his prime.  
If they want to make him a retired Roshi kind of guy, they would have to make a time skip of at least 20 years, if not a lot more.

@Mad Black  
No the entire point is that his Prime isn’t good enough, he peaked younger than them and still wants to be on the front lines but can’t keep up anymore, he’s as far benieth these new threats as Krillin was beneath Frieza,

How would you explain logically that he becomes that weak in just a few years? At the moment he is basically the second strongest mortal in the known multiverse. He might even surpass the gods of destruction in the near future.

@Mad Black  
Easy the tournament of power motivated people to get stronger in preparation for any future ones causing people like Goku who already peeked to be surpassed, and it would still allow for maybe 5 years or so after the tournament,

@Ethereal Divide  

 
Just go on Netflix or crunchyroll and pick something. There is more than enough out there.

Wanting focus on any other character other than Goku or Vegeta is VERY wishful thinking at this point.

@Thanotos Omega  
@HJSDGCE  
Goku is simply the only character that the target audience for DBZ care about. Whenever the series focuses on anyone else, the ratings and views drop significantly, which is why the production team takes no risks with him and shove him into every episode. The result is an overexposed and predictable character whose development is forever frozen in time. He is not a bad character, but he has lasted beyond the creators original intentions and it shows.
 
In short, when in doubt about the problems within the series, blame Goku fanboys. Always.

It’s less that Goku’s development stopped and more that his personality regressed. As one guy put it “Super is not a sequel to Dragon Ball Z. It’s a sequel to Dragon Ball Z Abridged.”

Now that you mention it, any idea how long DBZA is going to be on hiatus? I wonder how long they can hold episode 60 back.

@LordDerpy  
It’s not wishful thinking since we had the Future Trunks Saga with the titular character getting involved and killing the bad guy sans the whole ‘becoming the universe’ deal. Let’s not forget Beerus, Whis, and Bulma who are main characters as well or at least very close enough to be. Not to mention the Universe Survival Arc gave lots of characters moments to shine.
 
@Turkeynomster  
@Dustcan
 
I kinda disagree about the regression part. Super’s Goku does have off moments. However he still cares about his friends, his family, gets a job despite not liking work (him selling vegetables and stuff), is okay with Gohan being a scholar and doesn’t hold it against him. Super Manga Goku seems almost in line with abridged series, especially recently where Goku says that Krillin’s good at running away so he’d be fine in the Tournament of Power compared to the anime where he begged him to participate because they need his “Quick-Thinking tactics”. Now which Goku is more considerate again?
 
As for the ‘ending’, I hope this just a hiatus and it’ll continue with a new series. Hopefully with a better production schedule. Super is still a hot item, so it seems to soon to retire the name. If they’re going to do a new series, they definitely should have the rest of the cast more involved. What they shouldn’t do is permanently bench Goku as some people here say. Just give the cast meaningful fights and things to do that way both sides can be appeased.

@Salamenace  
All I do know that Goku is very one-note with very little difference inbetween. I’d have to watch the original series once again to confirm the contrast between Super and Z, but I don’t remember it being as bad.
 
It’s possible that Goku’s character flaws weren’t really noticeable, because Goku’s biggest moments were always reserved for the very end in every saga. It’s kind of ironic how the original series found many contrivances to temporarily write Goku away from the main story, but in Super that trend is the exact opposite.

Super will end in march anyway. Or at least take a break for quite a while, and maybe return as a new series? Maybe Dragon Ball Ultra? Probably depends on how good the next movie will be, or rather how good it will do in the box office.

I have a question for everyone, now that we’re talking about Goku: What would you do to enrich and expand upon his character? If given the chance to write for him, how would you have done it better?

@Nightweaver20xx  
I already listed my idea, make him retire from being the hero and then watch as he tries to cope with the feeling of depression that comes from no longer being able to engage in his beloved hobby of stealing glory like it’s other people’s attacks,

@Nightweaver20xx
 
Gee I dunno, stop with the “Goku is stupid” gags? that’s DBZA’s thing, and even TFS doesn’t take it as far as Super does, that’s a good starting point. and I know he’s supposed to be rather selfish, but even back in Z he still acted at least partially remorseful when he made stupid mistakes.
 
Honestly, I could respect Z’s somewhat Selfish Goku, and hell despite the fact that his personality was horribly botched in Funi’s old Z dub so he could be more Superman like, I could still respect that variant of Goku as well, I can’t however respect Supers Goku at all, he pisses me off far more than he does anything else, particularly when he opens his mouth, I honestly wish he was a Mute, I’d like Super’s Goku a lot better.
 
Oh and I do think Goku works better as an “I win button” like in Z, when he showed up at the very end to kick the bad guys asses, it kind of pushed the other characters achievements off of a cliff, but when you stopped and looked at Z’s story as the story of Gohan and Vegeta’s growth as human beings it was still more thought provoking and generally more entertaining as a story

@Littlecabbit
 
Z also had the benefits of letting the scrubs shine when they fought off the villain’s mooks. Sure only Goku could handle the real bad guy, but at least everyone else got a moment.
 
If your name isn’t Vegeta then you don’t even get that anymore.

@Dustcan
 
Yeah, even Tien got a moment to shine against semi-perfect Cell, and Piccolo still had short moments where he was stronger than Goku and Vegeta, they never lasted long but it was something
 
Hell at the end of the Buu saga Gohan was technically stronger than Goku, …then came along Super where he lost more strength in three years than he did at the beginning of the Buu saga when he hadn’t trained in seven years

@Littlecabbit
 
Kinda weird when you remember that without transformations then even by the end of the Buu Saga Piccolo was by far the strongest character amongst the good guys.

@Nightweaver20xx  
Presuming that the plot wasn’t rewritten from the ground up and Goku was the main focus in the series, the simplest change would have been to make Goku’s god transformation more impactful story and character wise. Instead of physical training to achieve his god form again, it should have involved more spiritual growth and how the new training required conflicted with his actual personality already would have provided many new avenues for comedy, fights and drama. That way fights against others would have been about his ability to constrict himself, which gives an easy solution to the disproportionate power scaling between his opponents and gives some room for actual tension that doesn’t feel as forced.
 
Without getting too detailed, just change ultra instinct during the tournament of power to Super Sayian Blue form that he had been trying to reach since the start of Super. The path to that destination would have enough material to change the usual formula.

@Dustcan  
Trunks cut Merged Zamasu in half killing his physical body, Gohan regained his warrior’s spirit and eliminated two universes, The Androids have been knocking people left and right, Roshi of all people saved Vegeta from being eliminated. Before that episode aired, you’d think that it’d be impossible for that to happen but it did. Tien is the only one who you can say got the shortest end of the stick with his own recruitment episode and the way he was eliminated. Everyone has been getting good moments in this arc.

@Salamenace
 
Please, Tien has nothing on Yamcha for this arc. When they needed a teammate, his FRIENDS went “We need someone to replace Buu… I KNOW! Let’s go to Hell and get a guy who is essentially Space Hitler to help us! There’s no way that can turn bad!”
 
Yamcha, Puar, and Oolong even remark on the fact that they went to get Space Hitler.

Honestly, the timing for Super’s abrupt “end” or hiatus, whatever it actually is, is weird to me. Sure, you could argue it has to do with dedicating production resources for the upcoming movie in December and recasting the voice of Bulma after Hiromi Tsuru’s death, but with how consistently high the anime’s ratings have been, why outright stop the series now?
 
Unless Toriyama simply ran out of ideas and they have no new story arc material planned, which seems ludicrous to me. They could have continued onwards with a trip to Planet Sadala once universe 6 was wished back and have Vegeta, Goku, and maybe Gohan meet the saiyans and their king. They could have unveiled Zarama, the creator of the super dragon balls. We could have had adventures in the 4 universes that didn’t participate in the Tournament of Power. A time skip to the end of Z and the introduction of Uub and see Goku training him and have the story finally move on past DBZ. Jiren and Hit could have had more character development.
 
But instead Super ends after the tournament? Too many loose ends and a lot of lost story potential. It seems foolish to me.