Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

NitroFury
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Stand with Ukraine
You know, I thinks this is what capitalism is, make poor people more poor, while making rich people more richer.
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Penguin Dragneel
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@Violet Rose in The Rain  
I had a little chat with a family member over this.
 
They started by talking about how a local Hardees’ was closing earlier than normal due to a lack of employees, and then brought up how people are too used to being unemployed to want to return. I then made an off-the-cuff comment about how “maybe they’d return if they actually got payed enough to deal with people’s crap.”
 
They then proceeded to tell me that “$7.50 or not, money is still money. If they need it, they’ll take it.”
 
I continue to question why I even bring this s### up with my family.
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Vivace
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“ShimSham my GlimGlams”
  1. If customers have more income and spend at the M&P shops, they’ll have more available to pay their employees.  
  2. Like Zincy asked, what’s the alternate solution? Getting priced out fucks M&P over just as much.  
  3. If M&P can’t afford to pay fairly, what makes it deserve to remain in business?
NitroFury
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Stand with Ukraine
Capitalism was only good because it was regulated, without that; this is what Capitalism looks like right now.
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Natry
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Constant Lurker
@Violet Rose in The Rain  
If people don’t have enough money to pay the rent, they should be evicted. What’s that? They can’t get the money because of Covid? Gee, who would have thought?
 
I’m not an anarcho-capitalist; the government should be stepping in for economic disasters. Making affected people pay more during an economic crisis is unacceptable.
 
@Vivace  
1.In the long term yes, but in the short term businesses will be out of the money. A number of places where I live have already closed down already, and forcing additional costs at this point could shut down more.  
2. We should wait until the economy recovers so small businesses might be able to afford it, or pass a subsidy to help them pay for it. Just screwing over M&Ps is not a valid option  
3. See above snark
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Violet Rose in The Rain
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

If people don’t have enough money to pay the rent, they should be evicted. What’s that?
The privilege to start up a business of your own is never equivalent to a person’s right to basic amenities such as food, shelter and water.
 
Try again.
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Violet Rose in The Rain
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

In fact, in this quarter’s survey, 57% of all small business owners say these minimum wage increases will have no impact at all on their business in 2020, indicating that they can absorb the cost of the wage increase, sustain any loss in profits and find ways to raise revenue to compensate for the increase on their balance sheets. Or perhaps many were always paying their workers above the minimum wage even before the change was made.
The risk of a wage increase is that it will be set too far above the hourly rate that employers can afford to pay their employees, forcing them to lay off workers if they can’t offset that cost in some other way. Small businesses typically have smaller profit margins and fewer ways to reallocate funds if their business model suddenly changes.
But with these wage increases coming at a time of near-record unemployment and steady national GDP growth — not to mention great confidence among small business owners, specifically — few small business owners are complaining about the wage boost. Perhaps more significantly, even those who expect a business impact thanks to the change only rarely say they will cut headcount as a result.
Just 8% of small business owners say they will be forced to lay off workers as a result of the higher minimum wage, while 14% say they will be forced to cut worker hours, 14% say the higher minimum wage will result in less revenue for their business and 22% say it will result in less profit for them.
“The best evidence is that judiciously set minimum wages make a lot of sense. They raise earnings, reduce individual and family poverty, and have no measurable negative effects on employment,” said David Autor, an economics professor at MIT and co-chair of the MIT Task Force on the Work of the Future.
A report last year by the Congressional Budget Office found that a $15 minimum wage would increase the income of 27 million workers, 17 million of whom currently earn below that amount with the remaining 10 million earning just over $15 an hour, but all of whom would see their wages rise due to what economists call the “spillover effect.”
When adjusted for inflation, today’s minimum wage gives workers far less buying power than it once did. Since peaking 52 years ago, purchasing power of the minimum wage has fallen by 31 percent — the equivalent of $6,800 for someone working full-time at minimum wage for a year.
It’s not uncommon to hear that minimum wage increases have disastrous consequences, particularly for small businesses. However, economic research into the impact of minimum wage hikes on small businesses suggests that not only are increases not harmful, they might even be beneficial.
Research from the Fiscal Policy Institute examined three years of small business activity in states that increased the minimum wage above federal standards as well as states that did not. These were some of the researchers’ findings:
  • From 1998 to 2001, the number of small business establishments grew at a rate of 3.1% in states with higher minimum wages, compared with a rate of 1.6% in states with lower minimum wages.
  • Employment grew 1.5% more quickly in states with higher minimum wages.
  • Annual payroll and average payroll per worker increased more quickly in states with higher minimum wages.
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Violet Rose in The Rain
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Fortunately, there’s reason to think that small towns won’t be so screwed by a too-high minimum wage. The reason is that these small towns also tend to have fewer employers, and therefore more monopsony power. And as we saw above, more monopsony power means that minimum wage is less dangerous, and can even raise employment sometimes.
A recent study by Azar et al. confirms this simple theoretical intuition. They find that in markets with fewer employers — where you’d expect employers’ market power to be stronger — minimum wage has a more benign or beneficial effect on jobs:
We find that more concentrated labor markets…experience significantly more positive employment effects from the minimum wage. While increases in the minimum wage are found to significantly decrease employment of workers in low concentration markets, minimum wage-induced employment changes become less negative as labor concentration increases, and are even estimated to be positive in the most highly concentrated markets.
This implies that in smaller towns where wages are naturally low, the danger of minimum wage is reduced because employers are more powerful to start with. And in bigger cities where there are lots of employers and labor markets are more competitive, the danger of minimum wage is reduced because wages are naturally high.
It’s fine to talk about monopsony power and all, but ultimately the case that the minimum wage is a pretty-safe policy rests on the weight of empirical evidence. And that evidence has been powerful enough to change economists’ minds over a fairly short space of time. Remember that in 2013, 34% of top economists surveyed by the University of Chicago agreed that a $9 federal minimum wage would “make it noticeably harder for low-skilled workers to find employment”. Just two years, later, in 2015, the same survey found that only 26% of economists agreed that a $15 federal minimum wage would mean that “the employment rate for low-wage US workers will be substantially lower than it would be under the status quo.”
The actual evidence didn’t change in two years; it had been building up for a long time. But economists’ awareness of the evidence probably did change. In 2014, the Upjohn Institute published a book by Dale Belman and Paul Wolfson called What Does the Minimum Wage Do?, summarizing the evidence thus far. In 2015 they put out a paper reviewing the recent literature. They found that since the turn of the century, newer analyses using better data and more sophisticated analysis had increasingly found little or no effect on employment from minimum wage hikes.
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Violet Rose in The Rain
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

@Natry
 
Talk to me when you have actual evidence supported by hard data to reinforce your sad position.
 
Good labor costs money. Don’t want to pay your employees a living wage? Don’t start a business. It’s not a birth right to be a business owner. Basic amenities should be provided for free and this system is broken.
Natry
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Constant Lurker
@Violet Rose in The Rain  
22% of workers get laid off or hours cut and that’s not a big big deal? Seriously? And that data was from before the covid crisis. The rest of your gish gallop about the long term benefits of a minimum wage hike is meaningless to my argument. I’m concerned with making sure small businesses don’t under in the short term while big businesses remain fine. If we protect small businesses, I’m fine with a minimum wage increase.
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Violet Rose in The Rain
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

22% of workers get laid off or hours cut and that’s not a big big deal? Seriously?
 
Acting mad at me because CEOs decided to pay themselves more rather than their workers? I thought you were better than this.
 
And that data was from before the covid crisis.
 
What I’m getting from this is that you’re refusing to cough up any counter-data to prove your position, got it.
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Background Human
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CHS, Class of 20XX
@Violet Rose in The Rain  
I scrolled all the way to the end to see if there were any surprises. There were not. The words run out at $125 billion of the “400 richest Americans” section.
 
It really is difficult to grasp, let alone express, the staggering amount of wealth tied up in so few hands.
 
Like, Jerry Jones is the epitome of a rich bastard. He owns the Dallas Cowboys, the single most valuable sports team in the world. And according to Forbes, he is currently worth $8.9 billion.
 
Jeff Bezos could buy and sell Jerry Jones 20 times over.
 
You could take away 95% of Bezos’ wealth, and he would still have enough to buy any sports franchise on the planet. That amount of wealth transcends marginal utility. It is almost literally meaningless, except as a number in the abstract. You may as well say he’s worth Graham’s number of dollars, or $TREE(3).
 
Or, hell, Ted Turner. Also famously rich. A literal multi-billionaire. 2.3 billions, to be exact. The 433rd richest person in America. Doesn’t even make the list.
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