Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

@Violet Rose in The Rain  
You are a complete ignorant about the defintion of nazism. I’m all for free speech but can not tolerate this kind of insult.
 
 
@Ereiam  
it’s the same. If you don’t pay taxes that will be wasted in like, reimbursement of pseudoscience, millions spent every day into bullshit like homeopathy and all kind of placebos, anyone could and should be able to afford an health insurance that can cover all of this. But the insurance will not pay for cares like osteopathy, alternative crystal medicine unless someone needs it, and that could weigh in the costs of healthcare itself. When we don’t see the cost of the medicines and care we use, we think everything is free. But do the addition of the money you pay at the end of every year by reading your payslip, and do the math.
 
@Vivace  
Yes he’s promising lots of free stuff, again, America is not France, America is not Finland or England or Burkina Faso or China. Not all countries and people are the same.
 
Just like Yang promised $1000 each, why not?  
Get “«free»” healthcare, good luck trying to get Americans some prevention of health risks, drinking less soda and burgers, and safety, and second if it’s government-funded you can be sure the prices of treatment will skyrocket, unless you pass some regulations, and force labs to drop their fucking patents on the public domain so alternative laboratories can provide affordable shit, that’s your main concern.
 
It’s all promises and nothing concrete, just like Trump’s promise to go back to the fucking Moon. The people who worked on the Apollo project were not the same as this generation.

We are not those Nordic countires, both in populations and demographics. The US is also less economically free then many western countries. It is dishonest to point to Denmark and claim they are democratic socialists, and it is wrong to assume because they have nationalized healthcare we can just implement it here and it will just work. Additionally, interesting article on Sanders here:
 
https://capx.co/bernie-sanders-is-far-more-radical-than-corbyns-labour/

@Ereiam
 
According to a quick google search “the cost of a Kidney Stone Removal (Lithotripsy) ranges from $5,750 to $9,040.” A catheter itself “ranges from $82 to $199”. And it costs money just to stay in the hospital! “The average cost of a 3-day hospital stay is around $30,000.”
 
So rough estimates for getting a kidney stone would be between $35,832 and $39,239.
 
But hey, that looks bad but look on the bright side. This is America! Where you have the “Freedom” to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, work the minimum wage of $7.25 an hour (or $2.13 if you job does tips…better hope your customers are generous!) and pay for that debt all by yourself!
 
Just hope there’s nothing else you wanted to spend that $36-40,000 on. If there is, well, you should’ve known better than to get sick!

@Background Pony #2D00  
It literally costs less per year than the current system.

@Vivace  
It could, I posted a previous article which had 5 different estimates from 5 different policy thinktanks trying to estimate the end result of what Bernie is trying to do with medicare for all. The hard part is the assumptioms to be made. If you assume reimbursements will be made specifically at medicare’s current rates you get a cheaper system, but you would inevitably lose quality. Out of the 5 estimates I think 3 said it qould increase total cost, 1 said it would be a little cheaper and 1 said it would be much cheaper. I don’t have a NYT account though so I can’t double check.

@Background Pony #2D00  
to expand on this, previously in this thread an article was linked talking about how so many research papers are saying it will save money, including the “right wing” think tank the mercatus center. The problem is that paper had to make assumptioms on the reimbursement rates and to be fair to the bill did so using the most generous rates they could. It is better explained here:
 
https://www.mercatus.org/bridge/commentary/medicare-all-32-trillion-new-costs-or-2-trillion-savings

@Dustcan  
@Background Pony #2D00
 
Nothing justifies these prices. Wether it is by socialized healthcare, or by a private insurance. That’s what you must fix. Bernie will just make labs richer.  
That should not make the care any cheaper, healthcare should be like police or firemen, not an institution that exists to make profits.  
And no, laboratories are not corporations like others, if you find a cure, a remedy, a new vaccine, law should say you can make profit, but not restrict the usage of it.
 
In the meantime emergencies and units are overbooked, lacks of funds and nurses or ER crews don’t even count their extra hours, I have a friend who is in the emergencies, I guarantee you this is the worst possible job, with a shitty pay, with huge inequalities.
 
Finally Obama had eight years for it and never managed to get anything to work. Gee I wonder how. You cannot, again, compare a country with 350 million people and different states versus smaller ones with about 60 million people.

Harvey Weinstein is now in the hospital due to chest pains. He started having them on the trip to jail.
 
I’m not sure if I don’t believe the privileged 1_{er was in pain on his way to finally experience a consequence for the first time in his life, or if I totally believe the privileged 1} was in pain because he was on his way to finally experience a consequence for the first time in his life.

@Dustcan  
The conspiracy theorist in me says he took a suicide pill. But that’s just the conspiracy theorist in me.

@Dustcan  
the classic «Oh please I am old and suffering! Spare me from prison, have mercy!» comedy.  
As long he could, he would do it again without any pain in the back all of a sudden!

@Patachu  

 
And Obama was an exercise in mediocrity who took Romneycare, slapped a sticky note with his name over it, put the Public Option from Romneycare up as collateral, and still couldn’t get a single Republican to vote for it.
 
The moral of the story is, you’ve come to the wrong man if you’re looking for someone who won’t digress to dunk on Obama for any chance he gets.

@Dustcan
 
Obama could’ve done a lot more with Obamacare when the democrats had a filibuster-proof majority to pass his plans, but he tried way too hard to play nice with the republicans. That was probably the only thing about him I never liked.
 
By the time he finally got his plans passed over to Congress, he had lost that majority. He should’ve just told the republicans “fuck you, we’re doing this anyway” and struck while the iron was still hot.
 
There is no compromising with republicans. They just want to be the Party of No whenever a democrat is in office.

@Dustcan  
Yeah I recall we used to discuss the complexity of the software and datacenters put in place to manage just that was insane. So you guys think Berniecare will be better?
 

 
 
Also, on another topic, what are your guys’ opinion on >ballot harvesting ?  
We don’t have this kind of shit here yet, only suspicions of ballot filling and some frauds. But nothing like trusting people without control to not fraud an election.

@MethidMan  
Oh yeah, its this kind of attitude that has led to republicans ditching the filibuster on the supreme court nominees and the eventual democrats ditching the filibuster when they grab power. Both parties need to stop this since it only comes around to bite them in the ass.

@Patachu  

 
And what’s your solution?

@MethidMan  
Force the actual healthcare to be more affordable than it is, by having laws and some market regulation like every country with a decent healthcare does. That’s the cause of why you guys cannot afford it.
 
It’s like saying «DOC MY ASS HURTS, I NEED PAINKILLERS!» and your doc says «FIRST THAT DRAGON DILDO MUST BE REMOVED!» and again americans «NO THATS MY FREEDOM THATS A LUXURY DRAGON DILDO 3D PRINTED FROM MY DESIGN WITH IOT SYSTEM!» but you will never ever be able to sit with a huge thing in the butt without pain. That’s the idea, instead of finding a way to fix or a workaround, fix the cause of the problem.
 
Also you require additional doctors and less burgers.  

@Background Pony #2D00  
Unlike people who are told diet coke being good, that eating shitty fast food everyday isn’t a cause of obesity, I’m not.  

@Patachu  
Jesus christ why not put a posh accent or something a go full smug brit.
 
 
@Patachu  
That’s literally what the goal of berniecare/medicare-for-all is, I mean I know America has problems, believe me, but now your just finding ways to justify complaining.
 
 
@Patachu  
Isn’t that illegal in at least two us states and restricted in two more. In fact to quote this article  
“Currently 16 states address the issue of ballot harvesting with many outlawing it.”

@Zincy  

 
I’ve convinced my Republican father that Sanders being ahead is actually really good for Republicans as a whole, because it will force Trump to respect him as an opponent and make him bring his A-Game, instead of just coasting on an assumed victory.

@Patachu  
First you have to convince republicans that regulation is good. Which if they’re reelected then healthcare will remain as terrible as it is.

I just want an election where the Earth doesn’t crumble as a result.

@Mikey  
No one to convince, I want to see democrats with the balls to regulate this and propose a tangible solution. Or get a libertarian who will really allow the true competitiveness into medical and efficiency. They will all cry «You are destroying research and everything!» instead you will have less monopolies.  
Pfeizer don’t want to release a drug that’s vital but not affordable? I’m gonna open a labo that will produce the same medication that’s affordable for much less or nothing, and the government must not interfere, that’s just like sayin, should the GNU/Linux and free software should be sued for infriging Apple/Microsoft? Fuck it, it exist. Anyone could pick a formula that exist and make the same that works the same.  
That’s the idea. Not even need a law that force labos to comply at this point, it needs LESS laws that protects these corporations.
 
And the problem is solved!

@Violet Rose in The Rain  
Congratulations on making me have to re-read the last few pages of the thread. Enjoy your vacation.
 
@Vivace  
Please stop - no one owes you a response. Certainly not to SOMEONE ELSE’S statement.
 
@Everyone  
It seems that the mere mention of GG in this thread was enough to turn what has been a fairly chill period in this thread into something we actually have to monitor again.
 
If you want to talk about GamerGate we have a thread for that. Please go there. Your GG debate is as unwelcome in this thread as political debate would be there.

@Patachu
 
You know, the Coase Theorem has been proven flawed time and time again, because a truly “free” system leads to power concentration. In your model, Pfeizer would use its wealth and influence to crush or consume your lab, steal away your employees, and drown you in a tide of green and red.