Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Background Pony #6300
@Background Human
Please name a single policy of Donald Trump that is truly right-wing.
You mean like him reviving the (long disproved) Reagan era idea of trickle down economics with a huge tax cut for giant corporations and the ultra rich? Or his desire to cut social programs or make them harder to get access to out of some misguided notion that people use them because they’re lazy? Or his continual push for deregulation, because somehow it’s bad for business not to be able to dump toxic waste directly into rivers?
OneMoreAnonymous
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

Apologies in advance for the wall of text. I would put this behind a hide/expand tag if I could.
 
@Latecomer  
Does violent revolt seem to be working?
 
Chances are low, but all the evidence says that chances that working within the system will pan out is absolute zero. Basic logic dictates revolt is the only choice. Like I said, lack of options.
 
@doloresbridge  
I disagree with this extremely, though rather than offering a rebuttal I want to understand you as I feel talking past each other is unproductive.
 
I appreciate the goodwill. Thank you.
 
@doloresbridge  
What is the end goal of the revolt?
 
It’s only coalescing and making demands now, but that’s kind of beside the point. It’s a spontaneous eruption of popular indignation. It happened for a cause, and even if it lacks the focus to make it clear, the cause has hardly even been acknowledged by the government and media because, as I mentioned, they prefer to deal with the occasional eruption than address the cause.
 
@doloresbridge  
What do you envision society afterwards?
 
If you mean me personally, well, to be honest, I fear America has reached a turning point. I mean this in the same sense that any government, or nation, or era, or dynasty and so on tends to have a rise and fall, it’s just that, in America’s case, the fall is bound to be hard. As it usually goes, it’s not just one factor but a convergence of many. Economic (the middle class has been squeezed since the late 70s, and the March job market implosion etc), international (alienating allies etc), military (the peace dividend has been haunting Washington for 30 years now, and besides lacking the need for such a bloated military, now it lacks justification etc), cultural (it’s a subjective topic, but I don’t think it’s polemic to say it seems that cultural production has been stagnating for a while etc) and others which I can’t quite classify (lack of urbanistic models, lack of any rivals driving social changes, exaustion of representative democracy etc) and some which emanate from capitalism itself. This is the kind of scenario which requires very deep reform or risk disaster, and, historically, the latter is more likely.
 
And where would you draw the line at ethical vs unethical actions?
 
Sorry if this seems to evade the question, but I think you asked it on an assumption that I approve (so to speak) of the riots. The act itself, obviously, is unethical in the vast majority of times. Whether it’s justified is another matter. Lacking other options to address a serious problem, I can’t really fault anyone for this, especially when the problem in question exists by design. This is an instance where rebellion is ethically justified, even if the means available aren’t, and given the specifics, the former wins out. And frankly, I’m surprised at the relative lack of violence here, it’s far less bloody than previous riots. It’s quite telling that the media is using small businesses as propaganda fodder as if they have ever cared about them.
 
When did I ever say that?
 
“The looters are the aggressors here and have to be gone before any changes can be made.”
 
The development of a substantial welfare state ensured a permanent underbelly of dependents in society. […]
 
I think that the most common flaw in rightwing arguments, by far, is mistaking co-relation with causation. I mean, maybe you’re right and welfare did cause this, but I have never seen actual, methodically compiled data showing this. For example, how do the statistics post-Great Society compare with those before it? Or with stats from other countries? Are other factors considered and controlled for? Pointing out that welfare increased at the same time that the nuclear family decreased is not in itself an argument, because there’s no established causal link. Under that same logic, I could attribute the superiority of living standards of those European welfare States when compared to African ones to race, which is exactly what certain people do.
 
The fact of the matter is, many Americans go to public schools where they are told that racism is the “original sin” of America and that it still plagues society. […]
 
It is, man. Sorry, but it is. The Founding Fathers’ contemporary society was rather pragmatic about it rather than propaganda-spewing ideologues, but they made no bones about it. The gist of it usually is, “Although there is no issue in them having settled this land until this point, these tribal societies must now give way to civilized peoples whom Providence saw fit to guide here”. In order for liberty to be enjoyed to the biggest possible extent, it had to be limited to as few people as possible. This was a fundamental part of the Ancient Greek democracy which they emulated, and they never hid it. ‘‘Liberalism: A Counter-History’’ exposes this beyond refutation, among many other sins of the early times of the system that now covers the world.
 
To believe that people of European descent may have a common policy interest just as African Americans, Hispanic Americans, or Asian Americans do is utter heresy and must be expunged from polite society.
 
But this common interest is exactly what black people, among other minorities, want. The whole problem is that the system isn’t just indifferent to such a concept of common interest, but actually opposes it. The claim of equality of fairness of liberal republics is a hollow one. And the actual irony is that pointing this out is deliberately labeled as “heightening racial tensions”. Americans aren’t being treated equally by the State, plain and simple, and to say that demanding this be redressed is the source of problem is a subversion of logic.
tehwatever
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I can do nothing but rue how things came to this.
Ho ho ho. You KNOW that ain’t true. You scared like the rest of us. No no don’t you be putting the blame on some other people with–hey wait a minute. BOI you talking about organized rape in another country you ain’t even in! Noooooo no no sorry m8 you can’t play that card, not after your comment.
 
Still. Isn’t it worth trying? It’s on another countrty but it seems to have caught your attention so much, that you was what about-ing on the issue. So, I REALLY HOPE that it matters to you that much, and that you weren’t just trying to discredit people. because that’d just be sinister.
 
It’s a dice roll yes. But you’re willing to give your life away for a just cause, wouldn’t you? Nobody fights fascists because they know they can win. They fight fascists because they are fascists. That quote keeps ringing in my head like it’s calling me out “tehwatever you coward!” it keeps yelling at me. yeah I am. I won’t pretend otherwise.
 
But you? Are you the manly man this world needs but don’t deserve? Will you roll that dice, knowing you will die without making a dent in the system? However, this universe is great in its possibilities my guy. It may choose you, or it won’t.
 
My conclusion is that currently, you’re just another guy like me. I give you one year to prove me wrong.
 
Man I can’t wait to hear this guy creating a movement to stop organized rape in the UK in 2021 and I’m like “EY. I KNOW THIS GUY!” Don’t disappoint us, my dude. Fight.
Vultraz
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
Artist -

God of Keyboard Dusting
Lmao at all these socialists trying to justify using violence against people by equating it to “revolt”. Looting and burning stores, beating up/shooting random people is unjustifiable no matter how you try to sell it. Maybe you can fool Reddit lemmings and Twitter warriors by couching your “i’m angry; let’s kill everyone” in flowery rhetoric, but the people who are having their livelihoods and futures destroyed are not likely thinking the same way.
MethidMan
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@Vultraz  
Like they say, history is written by the winners. How often do you hear Americans mention their history of tarring and feathering British tax collectors in the pre-revolutionary days? Do we ever bother to acknowledge that it was wrong to do?
Violet Rose in The Rain
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
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@Vultraz
Like they say, history is written by the winners. How often do you hear Americans mention their history of tarring and feathering British tax collectors in the pre-revolutionary days? Do we ever bother to acknowledge that it was wrong to do?
 
>history is written by the winners
 
>the Daughters of the Confederacy has joined the chat
Background Pony #2F82
@MethidMan  
Doesn’t change the fact that Violence is a Archaic and primitive method of solving problems. Back then Violence was Necessary, but it isn’t in this dam age.
Background Pony #2F82
@DarkObsidian  
War has become less, and Less wanted, and more, and more costly. War has lost it’s prestigious image ever since world war one. you don’t see Trump declaring war on China over trade deals, you don’t see The UK going to war with the EU or the EU going to war with the UK over Brexit, and you don’t see people killing each other over food(At least in the US)
 
Violence is ultimatley unenessicary in the end, it only extends and spreads suffering, starts and extremifies grudges between people. When you commit to violence, you ending uup killing people, people who have family and loved ones like you do, and what would those loved ones think of you? They’d think of you as some kind of barbaric thug, not a hero fighting for ‘Justice’
 
People HATE Violence, and the more violence you cause, the less people like you and the more that they hate you. You’re only making your “Side” Look bad. There is always another option than violence, and most of these protestors want to be peaceful about it, they are not the same as the rioters and loots taring apart our country and ruining people’s lives. I will never take a life for some “Cause”, It will only be out of self-defense if it ever comes to it. Ultimately, Violence is obsolete.
Background Pony #2F82
@Violet Rose in The Rain  
Was talking about this post:  
You want a logical argument? Here’s your fucking logical argument, Ancap.
 
Also wasn’t the same person you were talking to, merely commenting on that.
tehwatever
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Artist -
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.

@Background Pony #2F82  
I’m sorry, but currently every country worth mentioning have a standing military, and their weapons are definitely not loaded with good arguments. unless you count hot minerals as good argument, which would undermine your argument because it is violence. Apparently we’re still in an age where violence (or the THREAT of it) seems to be an effective method of solving problem.
 
You know this, so I hope you were sincere about it and not just trying to discredit the other guy by appealing to morality.
 
I agree with you, btw. and we all are hoping that one day, guns and weapons are just gonna be used exclusively in sport and war games, and not for solving problems.
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