Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

@Background Pony #4146  
That sounds like an ad-hominen, and a lazy dismissal of statements from the director of the FBI as well as a wealth of statements and actions from Trump and the conservative sphere sabotaging voter confidence in the elections.

@dissociativity
 
Uh, isn’t that like all media in Australia except like SBS or ABC?

@Background Pony #FF79  
If it does include Hispanics, so what? And no, my math is correct. It shows how disparate the population distribution is.

@Vivace  
My math took relatively population sizes into account to produce a per capita rate, while yours didn’t.  
Put simply: a 6.5x smaller group committed twice the number of inter-racial murders, producing a 13 times greater per capita rate.
 
This is very simple to understand. Even if the populations were identical, one would be murdering the other at twice the rate! But they manage to do it with 6.5x fewer people!  
I don’t think you really understand how huge that is–how many thousands of murders it adds up to every year.

@Vivace  
Because many Hispanics aren’t white. Also your stats literally show a black person is more likely to murder a white person than vice versa. Literally over twice the rate with what? 1/7th of the population according to your statistics. I would say around 1/5th, but you’re very generous.

@Background Pony #4146  
No, mine did. I divided the victim count by the demographic population. But I suppose it’s worth rewording my finding to say that the proportion of the victim’s demographic population each white-black murder takes out is 2.5x the proportion when it’s black-white.

@Vivace  
It doesn’t matter what the victim population is, it matters what the offender population is. You still haven’t seemed to accept that A) the raw stat is literally twice as many inter-racial murders, so nothing about rates can “equalize” it, and B) a much smaller group is committing twice as many murders!

@Vivace  
You don’t need much Math to figure that one out. Obviously with a smaller group, every murder is a larger proportion of that group gone than a larger group. But even you as a lefty have to admit that even according to your own data that you got yourself, not some horrible far-right evil person like me, black people commit a greater total number of interracial murders, despite being a smaller population.

@Background Pony #FF79  
No. It’s not likely to be associated with blacks holding positions of authority and power, especially not predominantly.
 
@Background Pony #4146
 
@Background Pony #FF79  
It’s unfortunately true that the rate of murder by blacks is as disparate compared to the black population as it is, and blacks who do this deserve retribution in like fashion to anyone who commits the same crimes. But that the case that they are is questionable at best. For a given crime, convicted blacks generally receive stiffer penalties than convicted whites.

@Vivace  
I agree with you about the first part. Any effort to improve things in this country needs to start with an acknowledgement of the facts.  
Many people in this thread believe they are entitled to their own “alternative facts”, which they use to make utterly absurd claims, like  

 

 

 
 
I just want to reiterate here that their responses to this fact are  
A) it is not real  
B) it is only an artifact of how evil and racist police are, somehow covering up thousands of murders done by white people every year.  
and finally C) ok, it’s real, but you can’t blame the murderers, you have to blame white people as a race for murders done by other people.
 
This is, frankly, insane. And it is definitely not a path to fixing anything wrong with this country. Particularly the skyrocketing murder rate.  
It is the same thinking that brings us claims that genetics are not real, hindering efforts to cure genetic disorders and explain gene-associated risk factors.  
It’s the same thinking that gives us the 1619 project and demands to “destroy whiteness”, together with “white values” like intact families, rational and objective thinking, and belief in cause and effect
 
If it is allowed to continue, it will not end well for anyone. And many individuals here seem determined to perpetuate it.
 
 
BTW, virtually all sentencing disparity is due to A) actually more severe crimes that the researchers took great care to conflate, and B) having way more priors, which increases your sentence for any crime. There was a very good paper on this from a few years ago if you’re interested.

@Vivace  
Let’s say we take it as true that blacks get stiffer penalties than whites. This makes no difference to the question of their crime rate. The system does not uniquely target them, academics have noted that the proportion of black suspects arrested by the police tends to match closely the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey.  
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GQlvBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA1699&lpg=PA1699&dq=NCVS+race+and+racism&source=bl&ots=V30qcpC3JI&sig=DY9qaaM5SFkLhr7o401MmB0g04k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XUp3VJODMZLB7Aa_1YHIAw&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=NCVS&f=false
 
At the end of the day, black people just commit more crime. That’s just how it is.

@Background Pony #FF79  
People at or under the poverty line commit more crime due to desperation and lack of value (self and what society as a whole sees in them); black Americans are disproportionately poorer due to institutional and cultural racism that’s pushed them down ever since they were less-than-people and had to claw for each minor right until they were at least legally considered just as human as everyone else.
 
It confuses me how people can conveniently ignore the effects of poverty and centuries of racism when taking criminal (and other) statistics into account, and more importantly how even if they do realize the effect of these things, they don’t value any ideas towards compensating or fixing the core issues and instead resort to the concept of “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” and disregard any sort of societal imbalance based on race, or racial history.
 
It’s like they’re always just one inch away from getting to the point, but it’s never quite clear which point they want to make or if they want to follow through with it.

@Background Pony #FF79  
Why do you circle back around to that as if I haven’t already conceded the point that blacks commit visible crime more when I clearly have? Also, I’m pretty sure that NJSP officers admitting to being encouraged in the 1990s to racially profile counts as being disproportionately targeted by the system, as does police searching black & Latino drivers 4x as much as white drivers while finding contraband on white drivers twice as often. This means that if 8 white drivers were stopped and 25% of those stops found contraband, 32 black and Latino drivers were stopped, with contraband found in 3.125% of the stops, making the proportion of guilty whites 8x that of blacks and Latinos.

@Background Pony #FF79  
I think it might require cultural shifts as well as some legal ones.

@Vivace  
I mean first of all, where was it that they were searching black & Latino drivers. Are we talking about LA? Some small town? Detroit? New York?

@Latecomer  
«The punishment I propose»  
That sentence sums up your whole idea, which I vehemently disapprove and reject. You want to punish white people for things they haven’t done, and an imaginary “privilege” you are into yourself.  
By all definitions, that’s racist. And as a white person myself I feel concerned.
 
Please clarify, do you justify racism against whites? Because that’s what your message aspires to.

@Latecomer  
Yeah, after reading that, what you said is by definition, very racist.

@Latecomer  
Uff da. You want to remove any accountability due to someones skin color. This is progressive racism.

@Background Pony #BE6A  
I’m poor myself and in debt but never committed any crime! Poverty is not an excuse, crimes worsens it!
 
 
@Latecomer  
Bro, that’s NOT how we fix racism! the blame game and stirring for a race war is /not/ the way to go.

@Latecomer  
The punishment  
There have been some seriously hot takes up in here, brahs. But this one could probably sublime Inconel.

@Background Pony #4146  
So just to make it clear, you are asserting that based on this statistic, blacks are just naturally more murderous than whites?
 
 
@Patachu  
I used that phrasing in response to the post I was answering, which specifically asked about it.
 
Really, it’s more just a matter of getting everyone on the same page. With no racism against anyone.
 

 
 
@silbasa  
Not personal responsibilty - just communal, until things are fixed up a bit.
 
 
@Background Pony #EBF7  
I don’t want a bloody race war! Precisely the opposite, rather!
 
 
@GasMaskGuy98  
Once again, phrasing cane from the post I was responding too.Despite they’re assumptions, it’s not actually about punishing anyone.

@Latecomer
 

 
Anon here presented you a problem and data that can be verified. He is not asserting anything, just exposing facts, with public numbers. The facts are here now it’s up to black communities in suburbs or poor districts to work on to change this.
 
 

 
So, please, don’t.
 
 

 
That is not how it works at all, being a criminal is an individual choice and poor or evil motivated decisions. The society must not be held responsible, this should not happen.
 
 

 
So please, refrain from throwing ideas any community should be “punished” for what they are or for being different, whihc includes in falsely perceived “privileges” and your interpretation of History.
 
 

 
From what I read and followed the conversation, the whole phrasing should be up to you to clarify, because your kind of reasoning is what makes people becoming racist. It’s this kind of envy for revenge, trying to push social justice that makes innocent people becoming heinous. And I don’t want to be racist, I’m not racist.
 
Take anyone like me, or someone less tolerant and bash them everyday with this morale, forcing them to weigh history and slavery and privilege on them, they won’t tolerate it, they will have enough, and inevitably they will be racist, not because of black people, but because of actions and moralists like that who repeat the same thing all the time.

@Patachu  
No, it’s down to everyone to try and change it.
 
That society breeds crime is just a basic premise - I’m not really interested in debating it.
 
And it’s not about envy, or revenge - it’s about honesty, responsibilty, and the goal of equality.