Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Human
There are zero parts of the decision which contain any disparagements of the 14th Amendment at all.
While I’m aware that numerous pundits and experts have claimed that it does, I’ve yet to hear any of them actually cite anything which checks out when I look at the actual decision, linked here. Not to mention that I already read it all the way through for myself and found quite the opposite: there are defenses of and citations in support of the 14th Amendment. The Court also expressly stated that Roe is disconnected from the other relevant privacy cases due to none of the other cases touching on “potential life” - a term that Roe itself revolves around, and which Roe agreed falls within the right of States to defend.
In short, the “attack on the 14th Amendment” is a fabricated panic issue tailored for an election year.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Human
Actually that’s not how the crime of insurrection is written. It’s an attempt to overthrow the government. If it was merely “disruption” of government then tons of historical riots and even peaceful marches, sit-ins, and so forth - particularly during the Civil Rights Protest Era - would have been “insurrection”.
Or we could simply reference the Civil War, where the LEGISLATURES of numerous States were declared to have committed insurrection against the Federal government merely by seceding - an act which was carried out not by any attacks on a body of government doing business in any way, but by a body of government doing actual business.
Redefining crimes to fit one’s political opposition, and tailoring it to excuse one’s political allies, is the starting point of every dictatorship in history. And that’s what we are seeing the Democratic Party doing in real time. Fortunately, they haven’t actually changed the law, which is why no one is being charged with insurrection. They’re merely lying in order to drum up more fear, hatred and division for political advantage.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@CaptainXtra
That’s the CDC, the same people who’ve been telling the nation to mask up and get vaccinated for two years now. It’s specifically being cited by the Court in response to an argument made in Roe that if enough babies aren’t aborted then the number of people available to adopt will be overwhelmed.
In short, it says that due to abortion, there is now a severe shortage of babies available to families looking to adopt. This is likely due to the fact that over 62M abortions have been conducted in the US between 1973 and now.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@The Smiling Pony
Or they could just not have sex with someone capable of impregnating them. Or use contraceptives. Or get tied. Or have their partner get tied.
You know. That whole taking responsibility for one’s own health and future kind of thing.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@The Smiling Pony
It’s federal law that a child born on US soil is automatically a US citizen, yes. The conservative complaint to that is not about the child, but about illegal immigrants getting pregnant expressly in order to give birth in the US so that they cannot be deported. In many cases, the child is actually unwanted - the sort of thing you’ve said in your own arguments should be a moral case FOR abortion.
But the conservative position is not to blame or kill the child. We don’t suddenly decide we like abortion if it means someone here illegally cannot continue to stay here. We say these are two separate issues, one with a guilty party and one with an innocent involved.
You know. Nuance.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@HorsesandMuchMOAR
I have never met a right-winger who hates political art merely for being political. Right, left and center ALL hate political art which touches on that which is, to their viewpoint, extremism. Beyond that, I have met tons of right-wingers, left-wingers, and centrists who hate politics being shoehorned into art which is otherwise entirely unrelated to the art in question. This latter issue becomes particularly egregious when there is no narrative purpose to the politics in question, or when the politics make no actual sense.
An example might be an LGBT-focused retelling of court life in medieval Europe - which revolved in large part around issues of hereditary succession. Because a lack of clear succession often led to civil wars and wars of conquest, resulting in massive destruction and loss of life, LGBT persons were historically either killed, forcibly closeted as a state secret, or sent to a monastery in order to remove them from the lineage.
Now, that could be a very interesting and dramatic story, if told with a view towards historical accuracy. But the trend of politically-motivated groups in recent years has been to castigate writing which provides actual reasons for historical bigotry, on argument that this “enables” hateful conduct in the real world. In order to “minimize harm”, a politically-oriented script following the above story concept would have to make the LGBT characters effectively untouchable and without fault - because faults are generally attributed to “hate” and not “creating a complex, interesting character”.
So we saw then with the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy, when criticism of Rey’s lack of character development and the ease with which she learns skills or defeats enemies was called out as “misogyny” by politically-motivated defenders of the film.
Crap writing is always crap writing. But a crap writer who is “defending the faith” can usually count on defense in turn from the faithful they are preaching to. This is regardless of whether they’re on the Right or the Left.
KharnZeBetrayer

@The Smiling Pony
Well considering the US Constitution is explicit with the word “born” for natural citizenship, a legal status, then its the latter.
None argue that they are somehow not a person or human.
I don’t understand your line of argument here.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@KharnZeBetrayer
inb4 someone complains about the South not getting 40% extra Congressmen for owning slaves
since the entire point of the 3/5ths Compromise was that the original version of the Constitution had a sunset clause for getting rid of slavery and the North didn’t want the South just being able to BUY a bunch of extra Congressmen by buying enough slaves to meet the population requirements
EDIT: it would’ve been 0/5ths “of a person” but the South wanted 5/5ths and threatened to create their own nation with permanent slavery which is why it was a compromise - the people complaining about “muh dignity” are actually arguing the Southern viewpoint
Ereiam
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Monde de merde
@KharnZeBetrayer
Some are using that argument to argue in favor of fast-tracking the deportation of pregnant immigrant mothers, so they’ll give birth outside the US borders. If we used the same logic, the fetus should been entitled to US citizenship as soon as the pregnancy is noticed.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Ereiam
Yes, abusing US law by getting pregnant for the purpose of giving birth on US soil in order to avoid deportation is indeed a problem. Fast-tracking such abusers is a legitimate means of addressing it. The “same logic” argument you’re using is backwards since there has never been citizenship for unborn children regardless of the mother’s citizenship status.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Ereiam
Your dog also isn’t a person, but if you dismember it the State can arrest, fine and/or imprison you for it. Cruelty and disregard for the value of life, and all that. Are you arguing personhood exists for dogs and other animals, or are you arguing that we SHOULD extend personhood to the unborn from the moment of conception?
There are in fact members of the GOP who support that position, after all, with which persons in this discussion have raised issues of serious concern.
HorsesandMuchMOAR
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Gallusposting since 2019
To be fair, I sometimes make fun of the trend of “politics shoehorned” by creating a character or faction who resembles the “shoehorned” politics, and then developing them in my own way. For example, the “blue haired feminist” became “an archer girl who has issues with a fear of bullying and bad temper”.
Their tropes are more like another set of cliches, more building blocks to play with.
Sometimes I make political art to mock some unsavoury people, especially Internet trolls. I too, hate art that looks too political, even if it supports my people.
Even then, people who demand “politics must be everywhere” and those who make “all art must be political” also become characters in my works I make fun of. But when I do, I usually try to make it more amusing or pretty and less “preachy”. Usually because I love humour and worldbuilding.
To the person who was angry at me on another site, because I used to draw Ukraine-themed art in a pony site, I laughed at him for using slurs (seriously, slurs over some pony pics looks pathetic to me!), and told him to just sign up, tag the pics, and then filter them (as one needs an account to make a custom filter as I did several times). It’s simple, but sadly many netizens don’t even do that.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@HorsesandMuchMOAR
An excellent example I like to trot out about “woke writing” being done correctly is the “Caldecott Caper/CalFree in Chains” series of mods for the Shadowrun games.
Each of the main characters fits a progressivist stereotype, but each also has a strong character-development arc with exceptionally good dialogue. They also fit the world they inhabit, as well as the scenarios they face, to the proverbial T - the exact opposite of being shoehorned in. These are in fact some of the best mods available for the series, and I cannot recommend them highly enough.
HorsesandMuchMOAR
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Gallusposting since 2019
Basically, that reflects my style of writing, very good!. Even if it doesn’t seem to fit, I tend to give them a background, especially how they fit my setting and how they affect it.
Lore is quite addictive to me.
𝐒𝐞𝐚𝐫
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seventh layer of hair
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Background Pony #EC7E
The Court also expressly stated that Roe is disconnected from the other relevant privacy cases due to none of the other cases touching on “potential life” - a term that Roe itself revolves around, and which Roe agreed falls within the right of States to defend.
In short, the “attack on the 14th Amendment” is a fabricated panic issue tailored for an election year.
Or it’s a legitimate concern due to the connection Roe has to the amendment and the other rights cases that were built off of it, and people are just no longer willing to believe that a bunch of partisan hacks who previously swore up and down that Roe was already decided won’t suddenly feel inclined to go after those as well.
KharnZeBetrayer

@Ereiam
The unborn person in theory would indeed be protected by law as a person but is not a US citizen until birth.
This functionally would be no different than saying you can’t vote until 18. Having milestone markers for certain legal statuses is not remotely the same as saying whether or not you are human and have a right to life.
Your status as a human being is not the same as a citizenship status.
Edit: it seems like you are attempting to conflate things as hypocrisy when they are not. If conservatives were arguing for forced abortions of unborn children of illegal aliens you would have a point but that isn’t what is happening.
Background Pony #55D6
@Background Pony #EC7E
The core of Roe is that a completely unique interpretation of the 14th had to be constructed whole sale in order for it to go through. Read the descent of Roe v Wade.
It’s connection to the amendment is very frail from a legal perspective which is why it may be overturned.
None of the other cases have such disconnect nor are they being challenged in any way. The court doesn’t just visit previous rulings on a whim but only re-address them when new cases with new argumentative issues come up the docket.
Dustcan
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Dogs
@CaptainXtra
It looks like it’s talking about babies available to adopt; apparently there’s not much babies in the US to adopt despite people wanting them.
There’s about 420,000 kids currently in foster care in the US.
We are very much not lacking in available in kids for adoption.
KharnZeBetrayer

@Dustcan
Words are important here. His post dealt with babies not “kids”. The majority of kids that are circulated through the system are preteens/teens.
Most people who want to adopt want to adopt a baby to raise as their own. The issues around older kids (coming from a foster family and being a foster parent myself) is a much more complex and hard situation and not something going to dive into within this response.
Meanlucario
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Time to get spooky
What does “overeducated” even mean? It sounds like people are complaining that the younger generation sees the problems with the world and society, and want to fix them rather than just accept and preserve them like the older generation.
KharnZeBetrayer

@Dustcan
If you are talking the general pro-life position it is consistent: you don’t get to kill your unborn baby just like you don’t get to kill your 6 year old.
Your choices however are still your responsibility but a lot of support and charity is out there for struggling parents it’s just not government programs. There are a lot of non-abortive crisis pregnancy orgs out there (unfortunately some of which have been attacked and ransacked this week due to ideological extremists) and other support networks. The “right” overwhelmingly are involved in charities and other such organizations to help people. It just often gets ignored because it isn’t a government controlled system.
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