Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Calbeck
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@Background Human
Gabby Giffords was shot by a mental patient who, as it turned out was an Independent who “did not listen to talk radio, didn’t take sides”. He appears to have been set off by a form letter from Giffords, in response to his question “what is government if words have no meaning?”. The New York Times also reported that the shooter’s anger would “well up at the sight of President George W. Bush”. He was certainly not incited by Republicans to commit assassination against Democrats, let alone “get in their face”.
Steve Scalise was shot by a Democratic Party campaign staffer, who was carrying an assassination target list exclusively composed of Republicans.
I agree with you that calling for the hanging of a Vice-President or President is entirely improper, and was also that when millions of anti-Bush marchers were carrying effigies of his being graphically beheaded via guillotine and such like. However, the law which made that sort of thing illegal during the Clinton Administration (a pair of teens were arrested, tried and convicted for joking about it via email when he was President) was allowed to sunset during the Bush Era, which is why such speech has been considered lawful political expression since. Or at least it was; it may have been re-enacted by the Democrat majority since Biden took office. It certainly wasn’t illegal during Trump.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Zincy
Excellent! So, can you address the findings in repeated studies that boys and girls routinely and commonly gravitate towards “gendered” toys when left to their own interests without encouragement in any given direction, as opposed to the contrary and commonly-argued viewpoint in the field of Gender Studies that “gendered” forms of play are the result of social impositions alone?
Meanlucario
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@Calbeck
You literally tried to use Socrates to justify claiming that education was bad rather than prove your argument or points (like claiming that liberals coined the term overeducated and using it for the meaning you are using it as). I can’t stop you from seeing what you want to see, but I can still call you out on your BS.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Meanlucario
I said no such thing.
If you have to make up things to argue against, you have nothing to argue against. Socrates, incidentally, was a liberal, and the Sophists who killed him were prime examples of “overeducated” persons. Socrates had reduced the style of argument employed by the Sophists to one of asking questions and demanding verification, which they found to be offensive as one by one their overcomplicated arguments crumbled to dust.
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Somehow Omnipresent?
@Zincy
Excellent! So, can you address the findings in repeated studies that boys and girls routinely and commonly gravitate towards “gendered” toys when left to their own interests without encouragement in any given direction, as opposed to the contrary and commonly-argued viewpoint in the field of Gender Studies that “gendered” forms of play are the result of social impositions alone?
Who are these children that were raised in a vacuum, with no exposure to media, to gendered dress, to other toys, etc. until the moment such a test was conducted?
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Human
When it comes to allegations of serious crimes, I defend anyone on basis of what actually happened and what the actual law is - not whether or not their conduct looks good. If I didn’t, I would have to employ the same views against equally-legal and even nastier speech conducted by opponents of Donald Trump.
Zincy
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Part-time Pizza Cat
I can, actually.
I’m not one to argue that gender is 100% a social construct. Far from it, there are core cognitive and genetic factors that lead to expressed differentiation between cis males and cis females. Such as a noted proclivity of young females to gravitate toward toys and stories that hew close to “tend and befriend” stylings rather that “fight or fight”, even when controlling for things like parenting style and exposure to specific gendered stimuli.
The thing is though, to state that gender has no social component is equally as false. As is to imply that these cog/gen factors are the be-all-end-all for gender.
It should also be noted that it is impossible to raise a child in a vacuum. They will invariably have had some exposure to gendered stimuli, unless somehow tested right out of the womb. In this respect, it becomes a little more difficult to disentangle genetic factors from situational factors. Genetic predispositions clearly exist, in various forms, but their expressions are impacted by situational factors beyond genes. We can see this with the evolution of females in the workforce and military, as females are very much capable of happily filling roles traditionally gendered toward males. Many of those roles assumed far too much of a genetic predisposition, when large portions of those parameters were, in fact, of a social origin.
Cognitive beings of the complexity of humans cannot be easily slotted into either the nature or nurture spheres. Complex systems within human cognition will be influenced by an equally complex web of genetic, epigenetic, situational/environmental, and social stimuli. With considerable overlap.
Do not try and “gotcha” me, it is rarely successful.
Meanlucario
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@Calbeck
I’m making a jab at your bad logic. If you don’t want people to mock you grasping at straws, than don’t reach so hard it hurts to watch.
@Calbeck
Than prove your claims with sources, not more claims. So far, you’re the only one arguing for your claims. I don’t care what happened with Socrates, I care about what it happening in the current world.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@The Smiling Pony
Studies that gave toddlers not yet able to speak equal access to a variety of toys, with the researchers originally expecting that they would mix it up or even adopt toys of “opposing” genders. They repeated the tests with various sets of toddlers and different toys, and concluded that the reasons for the trends had to do with how development of visual and motor skills in the different genders proceeded.
You know, you can look this stuff up.
Meanlucario
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@Calbeck
Yes, because parents are never gifted toys and clothing for their unborn baby that are gender-themed 95% of the time. It’s called conditioning, no matter if it’s intended or not.
Zincy
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I would like to read that one, if you would give me a little information on it. An author, paper name, or citation by chance?
I’m not at work or I would access PsychArticles, so I would like to do a little digging on that one and read it for myself.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Human
And, as you point out, the mere statement isn’t proof of intent; it must be matched to actually doing the thing. No one so much as attempted to hang Mike Pence, and as such no one has been charged with trying. Not even the people who cut plea bargains about “seditious conspiracy”.
Calbeck
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Meanlucario
Point being that it happens whether or not they’re being encouraged to do so. To date, all of the opposing research has centered around exactly the opposite: pressing on children that they should accept a nonconforming role, for the sake of adopting a nonconforming role.
When I look up “gender studies” and find people talking from the “nonconforming” side of the fence, the child they are saying “has decided for themselves” is usually surrounded by paraphernalia corresponding to the child’s “free choice”. This is in accordance with deconstructionist theory, which argues for the deliberate abolishment of social norms on the presumption that they are inherently forced - but time and again, it turns out that the deconstruction itself also has to be forced, and usually only in terms of adopting the nonconforming view.
That is not freedom from social stigma, it is the imposition of a new stigma.
The Smiling Pony
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@Calbeck
I want to see what kids they managed to find that had been kept in complete isolation, had never observed a woman in a dress or another child playing with a toy, hadn’t been given any toys before, hadn’t been around any clothes or blankets or paint other than whites, blacks and greys, etc.
I’m really curious, because I’ve been around a lot of “toddlers not yet able to speak”, and they’re always surrounded by gendered elements, from the colour of their blanket to the the designs on their diapers to the picture books their parents show them to how many frills are on their socks, etc.
So link the studies that show these special, secluded, children.
Zincy
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Part-time Pizza Cat
May I have one of those papers as well.
“usually surrounded by paraphernalia corresponding to the child’s “free choice” sounds like a hell of a confound to leave in a study. I would quite like to see one of those myself so I may pick it apart and find out how badly structured it really is.
Background Human
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@Calbeck
Okay, so no attempted murder charge. Yay. But between their rhetoric and their actions, it should be evident to anyone but a dirty liar that their objective was to prevent by force the lawful transition of power, to deny the United States its rightful President.
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