Mar 19 2018 Site Update Thread

The Frowning Pony

Administrator
13 blinks per minute
This is a thread for the visual site update related to image pages that was first rolled out on 19 March 2018. This is for the site devs to gather concrete, workable feedback and solution proposals.
 
Some very important ground rules before you post:
 
  1. Shitposting will get you a dayban (ie. “It’s shit”, “Mods are faggots”, “We JewTube now boys”, etc.)  
  2. Empty calls to “revert everything immediately” will get you a dayban  
  3. Empty praise will get you a dayban (ie. “It’s amazing leave the mods alone!”, etc.)  
  4. Suggesting the use or posting a userscript as anything other than an example solution will get you a dayban  
  5. Off topic discussion will get you a dayban  
  6. Feedback should have an explanation:  
    6.a - If an existing or proposed solution doesn’t work, state the concrete reasons why  
    6.b - If you propose a solution, state the concrete reasons why you believe it’s good  
  7. This is a My Little Pony imageboard worked on by a few people in their free time; don’t demand immediate feedback and action  
  8. This also goes for site staff - No empty defence of changes or attacking feedback or ideas without reason
     
     
    That said,
     
  9. The sole purpose of the change is that when someone looks at an image on the site, the most prominent name they associate with the image is that of the artist or artists, with the uploader being secondary  
  10. No change should lead to a loss of functionality (ie. remove Related images button for some reason)  
  11. Mobile is unfortunately a thing  
  12. So are centered and left-aligned layouts  
  13. And Default and Normal themes
The Frowning Pony

Administrator
13 blinks per minute
@Twilight Schwifty  
For this thread, yes.
 
This thread is not to discuss those ground rules. This is a thread for the site devs to be able to read through and get comprehensive and/or actionable feedback to improve the site, and nothing else. Please refrain from any other sort of comments.
mana the immortal
Magical Inkwell - Wrote MLP fanfiction consisting of at least around 1.5k words, and has a verified link to the platform of their choice
Condensed Milk - State-Approved Compensation

Some Weirdo
Like I posted the other day, it’s fairly simple why.
 
The uploader’s name’s new position only does more to make the uploader seem inseparable from the image. Especially considering the uploader’s name is right above the image description/comments, which are often just copy-pasted from the original image’s artist comments from whatever site it was retrieved from.
 
On top of that, as Wingbeat pointed out, we could simply emphasize artist tags, like we already do.
gexon_pane
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.
Bronze Bit -
Happy Derpy! - For Patreon supporters
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Artist -

私は一度住んでいた
Ugh. Well, rephrasing all of my thoughts about this into one message…  
Description shouldn’t be the full-screen width. It’s a text, and text should be easily readable. Which is being acheived including through giving it a limited width.  
And try to play with colors and image’s background, dunno. Now these dark lines feel like walls, and eyes bounce between them like in a washing machine.
Moonatik
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Artistic Detective - For exemplary work, above and beyond the call, helping to sort out artist tags and aliases.
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Da Magicks! - Merited Fine Arts badge with only their own art
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!

Moderator
drank the gender fluid
  1. The sole purpose of the change is that when someone looks at an image on the site, the most prominent name they associate with the image is that of the artist or artists, with the uploader being secondary.
 
So revert to the old UI, but replace “Uploaded by X” with “Created by X, uploaded by Y” or just put extra emphasis on artist tags. I know this has been brought up time and time again, but now the uploader name is even more prominent thanks to the new placement.  
  1. No change should lead to a loss of functionality (ie. remove Related images button for some reason)
 
Understood.  
  1. Mobile is unfortunately a thing
 
I use mobile, quite a lot, actually. The change looks okay on mobile, but the issue of the description being within pixels of the uploader name makes it impossible to tap what you want to tap with big dumb fat human fingers.
WonderSchwifty
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
Equality - In our state, we do not stand out.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Artist -

Moved to Newgrounds
Where it stands Mobile is a thing.  
I am a iOS user and yes , mobile is a thing because it’s 2018 .
 
 
(SORRY FOR SOUNDING LIKE A DUCK AND PLEASE DONT BAN ME FOR THIS )
stsyn
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Notoriously Divine Tagger - Consistently uploads images above and beyond the minimum tag requirements. And/or additionally, bringing over the original description from the source if the image has one. Does NOT apply to the uploader adding several to a dozen tags after originally uploading with minimum to bare tagging.
Best Artist - Providing quality, Derpibooru-exclusive artwork
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)
Economist -
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
The Power of Love - Given to a publicly verified artist with an image under their artist’s tag that has reached 1000 upvotes

Moderator
block__header class should be returned to uploader’s line because of aesthetics.  
Descriptions should have layout--narrow class on left-aligned theme because it’s not web1.0 with screen width text.  
Subscribe/Unsubscribe label should be removed from mobile view because it’s obvious and wastes too much space (not sure about Galleries label).  
Uploader’s name should have some kind of notification if (s)he’s an artist because it should be.
Lead Pie
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Magical Inkwell - Wrote MLP fanfiction consisting of at least around 1.5k words, and has a verified link to the platform of their choice
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Artist -

This is a box.
  • No full width descriptions, it makes things harder to read for long descriptions. Also formatting from old descriptions might look weird.  
  • I now have to scroll down whenever I want to see an image’s upload time. And I need that quite often.  
  • Having the uploader in the description makes it look more like they are the content creator.  
  • Just don’t display the box when there is no description, instead of that annoying ‘no description provided’ text.  
  • Thanks to new formatting of the upper information bar the download and view buttons can change horizontal position quite a lot depending on other information. Makes it hard for muscle memory.  
  • Redo placing of the ‘edit description’ button. It floats in weird places right now.
     
    My recommended solution:  
    1st, revert it back. The old information bar was great.  
    2nd, go back to creating new ideas and try something else next time. The goals you wanted to achieve have not been hit, some were even made worse.
     
    Tips:  
  • Don’t overdo it with bans. You don’t wanna have people not speak up just because they fear a ban.  
  • Ignore your own opinion when reading feedback of a change. If you design something you get blind after some time. Let others rate it.
gexon_pane
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.
Bronze Bit -
Happy Derpy! - For Patreon supporters
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Artist -

私は一度住んでいた
Ugh, you just removed the dark block under the uploader’s nickname.  
Well, that’s even more strange.
Tide Hunter
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Artist -

Tag the genders
@The Frowning Pony  
Sometimes there are multiple artists. How do you emphasize the artists of a post by moving the uploader name to the description box? And, as has been said, since the description box generally has the description from the source if there is any description at all, that makes the uploader appear to be more linked to the artwork than before. The major annoyance I have, though, is more related to how the time/date posted is at the bottom, and it’s been at the top for so long that my eyes automatically look upwards when searching for the date.
Binkyt11
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Philomena - For helping others attend the 2021 community collab
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Best Art Program Ever - For artists who were courageous enough to draw something for the April Fools day.

Sleep isn't real.
I hope tgis isn’t banworthy as I do want to speak up about tge natter seriously, but I feel like the current layout doesn’t quite work since it’s something that breaks the natural flow of things. It isn’t pleasant to look at nor is it to use.I know some people on here wanna take their time with learning about the details, and that’s fine! But there’s also people who want to get the details they’re looking for quickly. If they have trouble finding it or aren’t getting used to it, they’ll just go somewhere else.
 
It’s like… looking at a newspaper article. You got your Headline (not entirely sure of what this would be) The main info of the upload(uploader, date, data size, etc.), the photo (duh), The story (in this case, the description), More info (tags, source, etc.), and finally the advertisement. Just think about any news paper or web article you’ve read that followed this format. Most of the time it’s easy to read and gather what info you need. The same applies here. People are turned off because a lot of things main info is poorly distribution on the page. And that’s not even counting mobile view either where it can be really easy to miss unless you got a full blown story in the description. I understand why y’all would wanna make some changes, none of y’all intented to hurt anyone. And I’m sorry for some people getting a little too riled up, but in all seriousness I do hope we find some was to make a compromise soon that will work for a lot of users here.
Love Letter
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

Gen 1 Pony
I actually like the new layout. Looks clean.
 
I do, however, agree that the Uploader being right under the image may cause some confusion. Is there a way to take the artist tag(s) and do an “Art by: artist name(s)” just above the uploader name? That may help clarify.
Sff
Inspiration Manifestation - For Patreon supporters
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Bronze Bit -
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Happy Derpy! -

What does it mean?!?
Gonna have to repeat what a few others have said about the new layout just further linking the uploader to the image because of how most of the time when there is a description, it’s copied from the source.
 
The suggestion to add an Art by: section above or before the uploader would be a much better way of clearing up such confusion, and would still work with the old non split up layout, which also had the advantage of more easily recognicable upload time.
 
The description box showing up when there is no description is also annoying and ugly, and with a revised old layout that would not have to be the case.
SuperSupermario24
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

fluffy sylveon
My biggest gripe with the change is still that the description box is page-width on the left-aligned view. It makes long descriptions harder to read, and it’s inconsistent with the centered view, which still has it comment-width.
 
What was the actual reason for that particular part of the change? I don’t personally have any problems with the rest of it, but that’s going to bug me endlessly.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
The comments about the uploader being responsible for the comment are very true and very on the mark.
 
The uploader is responsible for the description, as they are they only normal user who can edit it - getting the description right is their responsibility.
 
As are the tags on upload.
 
The uploader is not the individual responsible for the image - the uploader is the individual responsible for the metadata that identifies the image through tagging and the description and source.
 
So putting the uploader on top of that section of data which they are personally responsible for setting up on this site and making sure is correct seems to me entirely appropriate.
Lead Pie
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Magical Inkwell - Wrote MLP fanfiction consisting of at least around 1.5k words, and has a verified link to the platform of their choice
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Artist -

This is a box.
@Derpy Whooves  
Yeah, but it still might make the uploader seem like the artist. And since some artists stay away from Derpibooru because “people there steal my artwork” I don’t think highlighting uploaders in such a place would help one of Derpibooru’s core goals.
DoublePipe
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Note - I am currently not an active developer for the site, and was not part of the decision-making around this change.
 
This update does not seem to have achieved its intended goal - drawing less attention to the uploader of an image. It may even have had the opposite effect. Therefore I think it is reasonable for this to be reverted.
 
Instead, my suggestion for fixing the original problem is sitting there under Local settings - the “Hide uploader” option. Flipping this option would hide the information by default, but allow those who already know the site well to enable it again if they want to.
 
In addition, you could add an “Uploader”-tab to the image pages for those who occasionally want to access the information without changing their options.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
@Lead Pie  
And you don’t think that putting the uploader on the top of the page, as if the WHOLE PAGE was somehow their’s, makes it seem like the uploader might be the artist?
 
Or that by putting the uploader on top of the page, right above the art, wasn’t sometimes misconstrued by artists to be saying that the uploader was claiming their art?
 
Are you saying those things were not possible or couldn’t have been misconstrued by the placement of the uploader at the top of the page?
kleptomage
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - 10+ uploads with over 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)

It’s inconvenient to scroll past the image to see when it was uploaded.
 
I don’t understand why there would be confusion between the uploader and the artist when both are clearly marked. It shouldn’t be too much to ask of a viewer to take a second to compare the uploader’s name to the artist’s name in the tags. That just seems like common sense to me. If you want to make it absolutely clear, then revert to the previous layout to distance the uploader from the artist’s name in the tags and put the artist’s name next to the uploader’s like others have said.
Lead Pie
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Magical Inkwell - Wrote MLP fanfiction consisting of at least around 1.5k words, and has a verified link to the platform of their choice
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Artist -

This is a box.
@Derpy Whooves  
There was always some confusion. But in my opinion having it tied to the description box gives it a look similar to Furaffinity or Deviantart, where the artist is shown under the image and in the description area. The old layout had it tied to the information bar at the top, with information like upload time and resolution and such near it, making it seem more like it’s just part of that information set.  
And as I mentioned earlier, I think this information should be at the top as otherwise I have to scroll down just to check something like upload time.  
Besides, the uploader is not the first shown thing. It’s not the ‘headline’ of the whole page.
Princess Luna
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Thread Starter - Started a thread with over 100 pages
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Notoriously Divine Tagger - Consistently uploads images above and beyond the minimum tag requirements. And/or additionally, bringing over the original description from the source if the image has one. Does NOT apply to the uploader adding several to a dozen tags after originally uploading with minimum to bare tagging.
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Economist -
A Perfectly Normal Pony - <%Nebulon> Yeah, just fetch me a smaller anus, sweetie.
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
From the Night -

Senior Moderator
Site Developer
Tag Czar
@gexon_pane  
Going to make the description narrow again later today; it was shortened because of the effect of badges, but maybe we can just set a limit on how many badges to display for uploader credit specifically.  
I’m a little confused on what you mean with the colors, all we changed was description’s background.
 
@Moonatik  
“Created by __” is interesting, but it runs into trouble with multiple artists (what do you do when there’s four artist tags?). The current plan is to mark the uploader name special if they are the artist, which I think deals with this more cleanly.
 
 
In regards to uploader “owning” description, I find it rather interesting that people feel that we had established description as essentially “authorless”. Description was always meant to be something the uploader owned (and if from the original artist, there are ways to designate it as such), and I think that it’s better to make uploaders feel responsible for providing one.
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