Poll on hiding exploitable memes

ExtremeLurkerHomeEdition

@Sjogre  
So you agree with me, yes? Because that’s pretty much contradictory to everything you’ve said in this thread. Default spoilers have a HUGE impact on people’s first impression of the site, which is exactly why we should pass this bill spoiler the maymays.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Grieffon  
The way you said it, it sounded like you were talking about adding every new meme to the filter list, which would get real old, real fast.
 
The additions to the spoiler list are easy to miss for one reason or another. I’ve had to go and take things off at least twice.
 
What would be more likely: people leaving because all they see is meme, or people leaving because they don’t see any meme?
 
The memes are a feature, not a bug. Memes are a part of the fandom. A site that includes pony images would have to include the memes.
 
Leaving because they don’t see memes is unlikely; leaving because they see memes is nonsensical. You don’t leave a grocery store because it has milk. The memes are a part of the product list. Some people are lactose intolerant, sure, but they don’t turn around and walk out if they walk into a milk display first thing through the door.
 
Not unless they have been having a really bad day, anyway.
Carcer
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Inexplicably in power
Perhaps we should also point out that in the settings page where the tag filters live there is an automatically generated list of which tags are hidden or spoilered by default along with descriptions so any new user who looks at their settings will see exactly what they may be missing out on. It’s not like we try and obscure the fact that the default view misses some content.
Grieffon
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h
@Sjogre  
I said leaving because all they see is meme, not because they see meme. Last night I scrolled through 5 pages seeing nothing but chickun. If you don’t like milk, and walk through 5 aisle seeing nothing but milk, would you continue? Maybe, but many will just walk out and go elsewhere.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@ExtremeLurkerHomeEdition  
When did I say anything like that? DerpiB is the superior image site, it’s better organized and better supports looking at images. The larger pages boil down to just being a big, sloppy mess.
 
It’s easier to search the site for meme images.
 
Seriously, though. Meme spam has never been a chronic problem on this site. There’s the occasional flood, but none lasted more than a few hours. In the time that I’ve been here, the only floods of images that were a problem to navigate were the screencaps from season three.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Grieffon  
Unless you’re on dial up, five pages doesn’t equate to five aisles. I’m not sure that I’d call it five steps.
 
If you are on dial up, then loading any amount of images, whatever they are, is going to be hell.
 
To be honest, I’d expect anyone coming to DerpiB for the first time to use the search rather than just click through the images pages. The raw image pages are unlikely to display what anyone wants to see for the first time through random chance. I only stay there for the comments, to be honest. The activity page is probably the best page for a newcomer to start with, as it has the featured image and the top scoring/top commented images. Up until today, it also had a welcome blurb.
 
More importantly, situations like last night are pretty rare. Before the chickun thing, how far do you have to go to reach another meme flood? It’s something that happens maybe once every couple of months.
JP
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@Sjogre  
All right. I will reply to you one more time. I am going to make everything explicitly clear.
 
  1. There are types of content that are not suitable for all audiences. Things like porn and violence. These are often referred as “NSFW”.  
  2. Therefore, this NSFW content is either hidden or spoilered by default. This is done to prevent passers-by exposing themselves to this possibly harmful content. These “passers-by” can be little kids. Or people browsing from work/school. Many people make this hidden content visible on their own home computers, but they don’t use their accounts elsewhere.  
  3. These defaults are sensible. They leave most of the images visible. Outside of the possible ridicule for browsing a “pony website”, you can browse Derpi from a public computer mostly safely.  
  4. Whether or not this is censorship is open to debate, however I am not going there. But Wikipedia says:
     
    “Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient […] for a variety of reasons including national security, to control obscenity, child pornography, and hate speech, to protect children, to promote or restrict political or religious views, and to prevent slander and libel.”
     
  5. Censorship or not, you can turn off the hiding/spoilering from your content settings. You need an account for that (*). That’s okay, most places on the internet require you to create an account if you want to change settings. Hiding images by default does not make them go away permanently.  
  6. Therefore, making everything visible by default is detrimental.
     
    Anyone can filter anything they want. They can unfilter anything they want. But by default, there are things you should not show publicly. If Derpibooru was completely closed, ie. you’d need an invitation or you could not see any content at all without an account, THEN I’d agree with you that hiding things by default is bad. But Derpibooru isn’t closed. Anyone can come and go as they please.
     
    You have your opinion and that’s fine. But your opinion is incompatible with Derpibooru. This isn’t about just me. This is about everyone who visits Derpibooru, registered user or not. That’s all I am going to say. If you don’t agree with this, then you don’t. I can’t do anything else than this. The End.
     
    TLDR: You can’t make everything visible by default. It’d be bad.
     
    (*) I am not 100% sure about how much BPs can customize their filters because I’ve never done that, I’ve always had an account.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@JP  
Yes? My original comment was made with the knowledge and recognition that removing the filters, as much as I don’t like the concept, is a terrible idea. I even later said that if I somehow ended up with the authority, I’d leave the filter system in place and spoil some image tags by default.
 
And I’d rather that filters were removed entirely, so that everything was always visible. We don’t all get our wishes.
 
Note the second sentence there. I know that it’s never going to happen. Because it’s a bad idea.
 
That doesn’t mean that I want harmless stuff added to the defaults, though. Also, hiding images instead of just spoiling them always struck me kinda extreme.
DanielTepesKraus
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Stolen Condensed Milk - Stole a can of Condensed Milk from Glimmer's private stash while she wasn't looking

will return
@Sjogre
 
Extreme or not, hiding the memes and keeping them out of sight is kind of the whole idea. If they are just spoilered, there will still be all the crap on the mane screen, just generic “MEME” spoiler pics instead of the actual memes.
 
And the site does make it very clear that content has been hidden. I have only a couple of tags hidden, and it says in big bold letters at the top of the screen “2 TAGS HIDDEN”. If that’s not clear enough for users, then they’re beyond help.
 
full full full full  
Here’s what the mane screen would look like if we just spoilered them. That’s… actually worse than the memes in my opinion.
Background Pony #8357
Just to make a point:
 
What about deleting everything that was just copied and pasted from some other website? No artistic work at all in doing that, as compared to at least a little originality in creating a pic using an ‘exploitable meme’.
 
Point made. Now, I do not suggest deleting items made on some other website, but where do you draw the line if you want to hide, eliminate or ban ‘exploitable meme’?
DanielTepesKraus
Greatest Poster in the Board -
GREEN - TALK TO ME
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Equality - Was more equal than the rest of the people during the event and did the only smart thing: wasn't there :^)
Stolen Condensed Milk - Stole a can of Condensed Milk from Glimmer's private stash while she wasn't looking

will return
@Background Pony  
We do that to an extent: images with watermarks from My Little Brony and the like get deleted the instant a mod sees them for exactly that reason. But when you say “copied”, what exactly do you mean? You don’t mean stuff that’s just been downloaded from DeviantArt and the like do you, because some honestly high quality stuff comes from there sometimes.
Indiche
Since the Beginning  -

Personally I really don’t understand why we need a new tag that’s going to be hidden by default. We already have filters, use those people. There’s a limit to laziness.
Niggoslav_Krawczyk
Duck - Niggoslav_Kwaczyk
A Perfectly Normal Pony - Drinky_Butt
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@The Smiling Pony  
employer meme is bestmeme  
especially the pinkie ones.
 
@Grieffon  
I pushed for such a sensible removal ages ago on pb. But eco was le dumbass and didn’t forcibly expunge them. And then I pushed here as well. At least youcaps get chunked from OB! And certain particularly disgusting humanisations.
 
 
@The Twelfth Doctor Whoof  
You’re only bitter because you didn’t strike while the iron was hot! (And having Sombra voiced by Tille would still be amazing.)
 
@RIG  
And then Clover accidentally the filters again, just in time for an equestria girls meme spam.@JP  
Actually the 90s and prior would consider cupcakes ‘cartoon violence.’ Happy Tree Friends, Retarded Animal Babies, Duckman, Ren&Stimpy, or hell even classic non-pussy Looney Tunes  
Also 4chan only has spoilering IMO because m00t has become quite greedy with the ads. It was a far better site when you couldn’t hide anything. Now it’s slowly becoming SA2, and Something Awful became Tumblr. Will that be 4chan’s next step? To become Facebook:The imageboard? Certainly not an improvement in any way to me.  
And anyone that isn’t letting their children play Doom is a pretty terrible example of a human being! Ditto Private Ryan. I’ll give you Anal Orgies though because what if he’s not a plot man? What if the only oc pony my litl’un likes is Milky! Well, damn sure would be a crime to make him watch only butts then!
 
@D50  
Should we put it on DWM? That was pretty forced, after all :3
Background Pony #8357
@Background Pony
But when you say “copied”, what exactly do you mean? You don’t mean stuff that’s just been downloaded from DeviantArt and the like do you, because some honestly high quality stuff comes from there sometimes.
 
That’s what I mean. If someone just copies an existing image and places it here, there was no artistic work involved at all. Yet, they do not get the item hidden for doing it.
Itsthinking
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Drinky, can you take ONE thing seriously? Even Sid has helped to try and contribute to the site when asked.
 
Your comment about 4chan is becoming true, though.
 
As much as we are both an archive and a community, there’s a limit. If it could be done on the forum, we must be picky about what is on the booru.
Miyo

:V I don’t think I should’ve posted this… Plus I only read to the second page, confusing it for the last.
 
My mistake.
Naesessid

Being someone who as no interest in the community of this site, and already has an account with filter functionality, I don’t really care what’s hidden by default. I can say that wading through pages of templated stuff is kind of tiresome, personally; but occasionally there’s something there that’s hilarious in just the right way.
 
I assume it’s not possible with the current implementation of filters, but for whatever reason the idea of hiding memes unless the image score is a certain threshold popped into my head, and I figured I’d suggest it. Unfortunately from a quick search, it seems the type of people who end up voting on those images aren’t the most, uh, discriminate, and it doesn’t look like there’s a decent cut-off point to tell which ones are actually kind of clever.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@DanielTepesKraus  
That was in reference to the default hidden tags, not hiding the meme tag. I get the idea behind hiding the memes even if I don’t think that it’s necessary, which is saving space rather than just preventing them from being seen.
 
I was always under the impression that the default hiddens were just filtered so that they weren’t seen, so I’ve never been clear on why they’re actually hidden.
The Smiling Pony
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
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Somehow Omnipresent?
Amusingly the chikun spam of the last two days had nothing to do with the poll being created; thread linked in OP is over a week old, and more related to my utter shock, horror and dismay at seeing the Princess Cadance tag sullied page after page by these template memes.
 
 
@Naesessid  
We do have a score filter, but we have no plans for a per-tag score filter. If it’s something you think is really useful you can suggest it in the “stuff that needs doing” thread.
 
 
Also as Carcer mentioned, there is a plan to have a quick filters / filter presets feature “at some point”. Chances are when that happens we’d remove the “template meme” tag from the hidden list and chuck it in a preset that hides a bunch of other stuff (drama, meta, text only, twitter, etc) for an “art only” mode. (assuming people vote for it to be hidden in the first place, of course)
Ferrotter
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Some memes are crap. Some are funny. What you’re proposing does nothing to get rid of the former, because seeing the latter (many of which are worth seeing) means un-hiding them both. I come here in part to see the Conspiracy Lyras, the Stand-Up Cheerilees, etc. Most of those are funny. Even some of the Television and Nature is So Fascinating ones are downright funny (if not many). Even a few of the Waifu Stealer Flash memes are funny. Screaming Armor and Chickun, they’re basically all crap. But I can filter those out if it bothered me enough. Whereas hidden by default means that the site is now less useful to newbies who would enjoy the content. If you want to get rid of the effing garbage, create an “effing garbage” tag and filter that.
 
Some of the exploitable meme images have great artistic quality. Not all art is “this is a beautiful and original image.” Hoihoi and Nezumi seem to go to great lengths to make their images look disgusting. (I spoiler those by default, but would never suggest that they be removed.) The artistry in attaching a good punchline to Cheerilee or Lyra is just as much artistry as someone with an expensive Cintiq making a pretty picture. Not your cup of tea? You filter it. It shouldn’t be by default.
 
And in any case, the actual problem is meme floods, not meme images. If you want to fix that, slow down the uploads per IP to maybe 3-4 per hour. Don’t filter out some of the site’s better content just because you don’t personally like a few images.
DanielTepesKraus
Greatest Poster in the Board -
GREEN - TALK TO ME
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Equality - Was more equal than the rest of the people during the event and did the only smart thing: wasn't there :^)
Stolen Condensed Milk - Stole a can of Condensed Milk from Glimmer's private stash while she wasn't looking

will return
@Background Pony  
The difference is, is genuinely quality work comes from other sites. Some of the most beloved artists here don’t actually post their stuff here, it gets migrated here from DA, Tumblr, etc. “Artistic merit” isn’t the issue and never will be, this is the internet after all. I even know an artist from DA who likes having his stuff posted here, since it garners more attention to his DA account, and I’ll bet he’s far from the only one.
 
The big issue is people being turned off by logging on and seeing an onslaught of Chickun, Screaming Armor, the TV Meme, etc which are all basically the same thing: “Slap pony on a non-pony image and upload it lolol.”
 
At the same time, banning uploaders and/or deleting the memes they upload is a bad idea too.
 
This isn’t an issue about fair play or right and wrong or artistic merit. This is flat out pest control. I’m pretty sure if the mods just played it their way the memes would be hidden by default. They’re trying to find a compromise to keep as many users as possible happy.
 
As far as I’m concerned, just hiding them by default seems like the best action and people can just unhide them in their preferences. But then again, enough people disagree with that so what do I know?
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