Poll on hiding exploitable memes

D50
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@Niggoslav_Krawczyk  
DWM had its own tag. Adding another one that would only apply specifically to it is redundant.
 
Forced Meme is a tag that is inherently flawed. In some occasions it really is a forced meme, but it has a vague definition and it’s difficult to look through the tag and related tags and argue “this was a forced meme,” “this wasn’t a forced meme,” “this should have been a forced meme.” Then there’s the dilemma of “this was a forced meme, but users seem to have embraced it so it’s not a forced meme anymore,” and “whether or not users like it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a forced meme.”
 
At least exploitable memes can actually be defined and put under an umbrella tag. Outside of the instances where it really is one person posting the same meme over and over again in an attempt to get it to catch on, whether or not a new meme gets slapped with the “forced meme” tag relies entirely upon whether or not the right person gets annoyed by it enough to label it a forced meme.
ZuTheSkunk
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(Copied from the other thread, since I posted there by mistake)
 
I agree with adding an “exploitable meme” tag and making it hidden by default, but I disagree with hiding also the “meme” tag. There are genuine art pieces out there - including some of my own works - that have this tag added as well. If we could somehow differentiate between such meme-including art and your usual everyday shitposts, then I would have no problem with it.
 
Also, I would really appreciate if the stuff where the whole point of the picture is to take an image and slap some text onto it was at least given a uniform tag, if not outright spoilered or hidden by default. “Text Edit” or something could work. There is an annoying abundance of these as well. I mean stuff like this:
 
>>448848  
>>446392  
>>445706  
>>445971  
>>446190  
>>445662
 
Yes, filtering “image macro” gets rid of most of the stuff, but not all. A uniform tag would be perfect.
Etherchanter
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Perpetual lurker
Meh… I’m pretty easygoing about this. Hide whatever you want. If I want to see it, I’ll place those tags in my visible tag list.
Vree
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@ZuTheSkunk  
I think those all fall under “image macro”. Since that’s the slang name for text copypastes, it’d seem reasonable to go with that.
 
I approve of freeing up “meme” to stand for a catch-all term for all internet memes like it used to, and go with “exploitable meme” instead.
 
It may be worth mentioning that the “exploitable” tag holds only the “clean” unfilled version of these memes, It could be considered for a moment if if people want to keep these clean versions separate.
 
Personally I don’t care much about it if they are collected under the same tag (“exploitable” or “exploitable meme”) for the simple reason that someone can just do a search for a specific meme (say, “two words meme”) and the first image in that series will usually be the clean version. But perhaps they should have their own tag regardless.
 
As for hiding stuff, I don’t care as long as one can collect all the spammy junk under one, max three tags. Say we have “meta”, “exploitable meme” and “image macro”, that’s already three (most of the junk stuff falls under these). That is about the maximum number of tags that a casual user can be expected to recognize and perhaps filter.
 
Instead of hiding specific spam I’d probably hide any image with a negative rating for unregistered users. (That’d show a much cleaner site by default, since most despised/boring stuff like “chickun” is negatively rated anyway. I know some mods were ambigious about the rating system but this I think it does adequately. My only concern is how this’d affect Anons, since most of the junk uploads come from those users, would mods have to deal with meme dupes and such etc.  
So, no opinion on what to hide from me. I’ll be fine with what the people say.
Sjogre
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@ZuTheSkunk  
The caption tag would still apply in that case, making it a largely redundant tag. Anyway, artwork that originally has a caption very rarely gets that tag. Best you’re going to get.
 
Removing caption from the images that had a caption originally would probably be the best bet if that really bothers you.
Ferrotter
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Herein lies the serious problem with censoring it:
 
@ZuTheSkunk  
“I agree with adding an “exploitable meme” tag and making it hidden by default, but I disagree with hiding also the “meme” tag. There are genuine art pieces out there – including some of my own works – that have this tag added as well.” (emphasis mine)
 
Your own works are every bit the same garbage as everyone else posting memes and exploitables. Which is to say, they’re good to some, and crap to others. Just like almost everyone else’s posts are genuine art pieces to themselves. (The jackass shitposting Chickun spam I think can be safely exempted from that.) What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the skunk. If exploitables get hidden by default, a bunch of yours are going down too. Because outside of your own eyes, your work, and many of your favorites by other artists, are exactly the same as the exploitables you think are the only ones that will get hidden.
Sjogre
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@Vree  
I think those all fall under “image macro”. Since that’s the slang name for text copypastes, it’d seem reasonable to go with that.
 
Folding the current caption tag into image macro would make sense in that case. However, some, but only some, of the current things tagged caption are literally captions, as in a transcription of speech. Not a lot, but those will have to be retagged. A lot of them seem to be animated, though, which will help track them down.
ZuTheSkunk
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@Ferrotter  
You are aware that when saying “genuine art” I wasn’t referring just to my own works, right? I don’t like this apparent implication you just made that my remark was pretty much “I think my art is better than others’ and I don’t want it hidden, everything else can go to hell”.
 
And I was referring to stuff people put actual effort into, rather than just slapping some images together in MS Paint and calling it a day. What I’m interested in is not throwing both into the same bag. If someone really is fed up with memes in general, they could filter both “exploitable meme” and “meme”. (As far as I noticed, TSP agrees on this one anyway.)
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Standardized, blockable tag is the way to go. None of this spoil nonsense. Unless the meme is something grossly offensive I don’t see the need to spoil it.
Grieffon
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Your own works are every bit the same garbage as everyone else posting memes and exploitables.
Because outside of your own eyes, your work, and many of your favorites by other artists, are exactly the same as the exploitables you think are the only ones that will get hidden.
 
I don’t even understand what you are saying. Are you saying this
 

 
can be grouped with this
 

 
because they both contain memes?
Ferrotter
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@ZuTheSkunk  
No, it was quite clear that you meant “your own works and those works by others that you personally approve of.” Not just your own works. That you didn’t catch the difference and assumed it was a personal implication only reinforces the problem: neither you, nor TSP, nor the rest of the site admins, nor the majority of the people being polled, nor even the majority of Derpibooru viewers (including those not even answering the poll) are notable art critics who have any legitimate business imposing your tastes on the community at large. (The admins can of course do so by fiat; this is a statement of should not can.) Heck, from your works, I think your tastes are not all that far off from mine. But neither of us should be in the business of forcing everyone else to ours. You don’t want to see it? Spoiler or block it yourself. It’s not hard.
 
Zincy gets it.
Ferrotter
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@Grieffon  
The former took more effort to make. The latter has more to do with MLP:FiM, and probably has more actual value to the community as a reaction image. (Seriously, under what circumstances would the former one have any significant meaning?) But yes, they’re both going to be grouped, and blocked, if this stupid “block by default” thing goes through.
 
So no, I don’t think they should be grouped. That’s my whole point. An exploitable meme image here or there isn’t a problem that has to be dealt with at all. Let the whole topic just die. Toss out the poll, toss out this thread, leave the status quo the way it is, and do nothing.
Grieffon
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@Ferrotter  
No, if this goes through, a new tag will be created, and will be given to “copy and paste meme”, the memes picture that takes 10 seconds to make. The first picture I posted won’t be affected.
 
Taken from the poll:
 
(and it’s unreasonable to just filter “meme” because that describes a much, much wider range of content). We are proposing introducing a standardised tag to describe all quick-edit content of this nature
 
Please, before anyone comments, READ THE POLL.
Sjogre
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@Grieffon  
Neither would the second. Or, rather, both would be equally vulnerable if they were used as a template. As is, they’re both unique images.
 
Oddly enough, the new filtered tag being proposed would have done nothing to stop the flood of chickun images from last night. They weren’t made from an exploitable template.
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@Sjogre  
quick-edit content of this nature
 
Chickun is not 100% the same as stuff like tv meme, but it’s the same formula. Scootaloo’s face can also be considered a template.
Sjogre
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@Grieffon  
By that logic, then so does every comic made using prebuilt vectors. Those chickun things are not quick edits, they were just all posted at once.
 
Recolors, resizes, redraws, animations… The pictures may be dumb as hell, but they put in a lot more work than just tossing some text into a word balloon. Using a stock vector is not the same as using a template.
 
For comparison, look at the ones that use an actual template. They’re just text tossed on top. Spike’s Love Letters, Cheerilee puns, the Two Words meme… Not actually changing the image, always has a template to build off of.
BinaryPony

What we’ve got is a very iffy situation. On one hand, there are people that don’t want memes, on the other hand, others love ‘em. My two bits is that spoilering them is the best option, it hides it from view so those that hate them don’t see them, but those that like them can click through to them. It ultimately should be important that, if this solution is implemented, that meme tagging is enforced against flagrant violations so as not to upset people.
ZuTheSkunk
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@Ferrotter  
You’re twisting my words into something I never intended to say. All because I added this “myself included” thing. Next time, I’m not going to mention myself at all, because apparently, someone somewhere will always take it as a “I consider my own works and what I like as more important than anyone else’s works and tastes”. It reminds me why I stopped participating in any forum discussions at all.
 
Anyway, Grieffon in his comparison post gets it. Such things shouldn’t be grouped together. If the “block by default” goes through, it would be unfair if both were affected by it. And having two separate tags for them gives a choice to people who prefer not to see cheap shitpost-quality ones, but don’t mind good quality ones.
 
And that remark about TSP agreeing was because, you know, he’s an admin, and if he agrees on hiding “explotable meme” but not “meme”, then it will probably be done that way anyway. Simple “2+2=4” assumption. I don’t understand where you got this whole “critics” thing in this.
NostalgiaSchmaltz
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About time. I’ve got just about every single “exploitable” filtered already, but it’d be good if we could just have one tag to filter them all easily.
 
I don’t mind a meme every once in a while, but Derpibooru seems to mass-produce memes and text-based exploitables.
Grieffon
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@Sjogre  
But the action is not the only effort to be taken into account. To make a comic, even if it’s just copy-paste vectors, the artist has to consider the story, the layout, the dialogues… which gives it value, whereas chickun is just pasting it to random pictures.
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Comics using random vectors would not be affected… because they’re not memes. Chikun and a whole lot of waifu theif and twiface would be as it’s just slapping a face onto another image and very little else. And actual new image that uses the twiface (or whatever) expression would not be affected.
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