Poll on the Direction of the Current Proposals

You’ve seen the results of the internal staff poll on what should be deleted and what shouldn’t, as well as the feedback thread. You’ve heard all of the opinions which have been shared. We don’t know the specifics yet, but we know the general direction of travel: things will be more censored than they were before, but Aryanne will not be entirely banned.
 
What do you think of what’s being proposed (expanding rule 0 enforcement to ban what some consider to be an inconsistent subset of nazi imagery)?
 
Edit: this poll is now being brigaded by Twitter. It would be nice if staff could give us a count for votes from accounts that existed before the post was made.
 
Edit 2: stsyn ran some analysis on the poll after Twitter and 4chan both seemingly brigaded the post. It looks like whether you look at all votes, or only votes from active and older users, or even only votes from artists, you end up with a similar outcome:
 

That rule seems almost impossible to enforce consistently. I do hope whatever the staff discusses after that thread was locked will be fruitful.

@PurpleSmart2  
I agree, I don’t think it can be enforced consistently, but I think taking the temperature of how the community at large feels about it is a good idea.

@Frosku  
What does that actually accomplish? The pro-censorship side is still angry that any Aryanne pics remain, and the pro-freedom side is still angry that any censorship is being applied. Nobody is satisfied by a middle-of-the-road response, especially when it comes out in such a bizarrely interpreted fashion. Rules are supposed to be clear and concise and this is a mess.

@Background Pony #44A1  
I agree with this too, the mob won’t even be satisfied if Aryanne is removed. Next it will be either foalcon or anything supportive of Trump.

If those polls were meant to make it clear and obvious what falls on either side of rule #0, I think they’ve utterly failed. Trying to judge the current library based on this would be a shitshow

@Vauria  
It also shows how divided even staff are on the matter.

I think your first option should be clearer, ie. that “the way the old rules were enforced was fine for a decade”, since it’s pretty clear both from what staff has said and the actual wording of rule #0 that it was not enforced to the letter (nor the spirit seemingly apparent from that letter). I agree that the way it was enforced was fine and I want to just go back to that, but the one thing that is correct about this entire drama is that rule #0 has not been enforced as written and therefore needs clarification. The easiest way here may be to simply remove any mention of image from it, but to be fair, some art has always been removed under it.

@Background Pony #606B  

 
I can’t modify a poll, but to be clear this is what I meant.

@Vauria  
Yeah, I looked at the examples, looked at them again, thought “I hate all of these but I don’t know if any of them should be deleted or why” and gave up.

@Background Pony #606B  

 
If I draw someone’s OC getting shot in the face with a shotgun and write “Kill ______” under it, that should not be allowed. Rules have to apply to images, too.

@Rene_Z  
Yes, but I think in general rules for images should be more lenient than for posts and comments. Similar to the “threshold of originality” concept for copyright, many images have more merit than posts or comments due to being the product of a creative process of some sort, or being of informational or historical significance. Of course this is a very idealised view (and text can be art too, as Clopficsinthecomments would surely like to point out), but in general most everything should be allowed in art.

the fact that the first option currently has more votes than the other three combined kinda makes me wonder if i’m going crazy. that and the overwhelming wave of DNPs the first time derpi staff reneged on the nazi ban would seem to indicate that the vast majority of people who patronize the site want all nazi stuff gone period, and yet i still feel like a tiny minority whenever i say anything to that effect here. like, is this one of those “silent majority” situations or are the libertarian or anti-censorship or pro-nazi crowds just disproportionately vocal? because if that’s the case then derpi staff continuously equivocating seems like they’re trying to please the minority rather than the majority. i know earlier i said i’d given up on trying to force the issue because i figured that i was too insignificant to have any say in the matter but now i’m wondering if i threw in the towel too soon…

@Bexar Bandito  
Users active on these forums, users actively using the site by viewing images, users indirectly using the site by either drawing art that gets posted here or by looking at art that gets posted elsewhere from here, and the whole Brony community - are all different groups of people, and it’s become clear that the overall opinion varies greatly between those groups.

Isn’t it one of the most basic aspects of this website that if you don’t like something you can filter its tag and ignore it? Tons of fetishes and subjects offend people. I’m kind of confused about the sudden change and what instigated it.

Too hard to enforce consistently.
 
@Bexar Bandito  
I dont want to Derail, but the “anti-nazi” DNP’s had a significant amount of people who dont normally use the site make DNP requests and then promptly continue not using the site.  
I dont have access to the data, especially as it’s still being worked on, i dislike the guy but Derpy needs a fucking crate of beers for doing that shit manually. but i’d be very unsurprised if the majority of the anti-nazi DNP requests were by people who had only recently requested an art tag.  
People like Dilarius are currently trying to get this site branded a hate platform on par with /pol/.  
The other sites that the ‘anti-nazi’ crowd are all currently using have the same if not more amount of ‘nazi content’ that this site does.  
The majority of it was knee-jerk “NAZIS BAD” without actually caring about the specifics.  
If they did, they’d be also be trying to get their artwork off those other sites.  
The majority do not give two shits about this issue, just use their filters and the people who remain here in the forums just want things to calm the fuck down already.

@Bexar Bandito  
It has already been said that the ones who demanded the change in the first place aren’t regulars in the community but those who operate or communicate on other platforms such as twitter. We’ve all seen the deplatforming coordination that they tried to levy against derpi.
 
With this in mind, it comes as zero surprise that regular people derpibooru dont share the vocal minority opinion and reflects the same statistics that ‘activists’ on twitter as a whole are not even 10% of the userbase. And this has been one of the main arguments against censorship since the start, they dont use the site so caving and catering to them is nothing but destructive.

@Bexar Bandito  
Don’t forget that the poll options rearrange themselves to be in order of most voted, at present the last option has the most votes of any other option, If I remember the order right, but its the “It goes too far, the old rules worked fine for a decade, we should keep them.” option.

@Venport  
oh shit, you’re right, i’m not going crazy after all. damn change-blindless. welp, looks like my stance is shared among only 16% of voters, so i am very much in the minority here. i guess that’s one of the big differences between us and the furry community; for them, the “no nazi content at all” stance would almost certainly dwarf the others in popularity while here it’s the opposite.

@Bexar Bandito  
The fact the poll results actually surprise you is quite telling. The term “vocal minority” exists for a reason.

@Bexar Bandito  
You say that, but e621 has more nazi content in proportion to its total image base than Derpi does.

@Frosku  
And also tons of Aryanne content just like (and in some cases, literally including) what was in poll 3… He must be referring to FA or IB specifically, or something.

@DragonRanger  
Mods consistently applying harder censorship to the side of “just use the filters” probably helps too. If you can’t actually speak your piece, you aren’t represented.

@Bexar Bandito  
The following links are NSFW, user discretion is advised before clicking.
 
https://e621.net/posts?tags=nazi
 
https://www.furaffinity.net/search/?q=nazi
 
https://www.deviantart.com/search?q=nazi
 
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/search/pins/?q=nazi&rs=typed
 
https://inkbunny.net/submissionsviewall.php?rid=ad872b0f95&mode=search&page=1&orderby=create_datetime&text=nazi&stringtype=and&keywords=yes&title=yes&description=no&artist=&favsby=&type=&sale=&days=&keyword_id=&user_id=&random=&md5=
 
Literally just went to those sites, typed in “nazi” for their searchs and that’s the link, you may need an account for some.
 
So, no, to put it bluntly, those sites have significantly more nazi content than we do, a lot of it blatantly propaganda and there’s no large push to get rid of it.  
DA alone has 75.2K pieces of art tagged ‘Nazi’

@Princess Luna  
i was referring to the large-scale community backlash starting around 2017 against nazi/alt-right subsets of the community, most notably the furry raiders, whose mere presence was enough to get an entire furry convention (RMFC 2017) canceled due to security concerns. the following year, all furry raider accounts were universally banned from furaffinity. even the less extreme instances, such as alt-right-affiliated community figures like 2 the ranting gryphon experiencing a precipitous decline in popularity, show just how stark the difference is between how the 2 communities are when it comes to acceptance of bad actors - the only person in the entire fandom i can think of that’s been well and truly “canceled” is TK, albeit due to him being a dangerous sex pest rather than any ideological causes.
 
moreover, i’m fairly certain that a major factor in why nazi furs have produced more art/content/etc. than the brony fandom is that the furry fandom is a) larger and b) much older, with the earliest nazi furry art dating back to the 1990s or even earlier.