Rule #0 Policy Refinement Feedback Thread

Princess Luna
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@Rene_Z  
Yeah, my mom is rather racist (she likes to talk about people by primarily calling them by their race and if they’re not white, deriding their culture or behavior), and I remember one time I had to stop eating dinner to tell her to knock it off and stop generalizing about “what black people like” because I couldn’t enjoy my meal.
 
Also, results of the second poll now up. It was dealing with mainly depictions of the holocaust, which is a tad tangential to the WIP wording, but I wanted to squeeze it in in order for us to have a better idea on how to handle that sort of thing. The gist of it is: Don’t have completely non-joking holocaust stuff (and we were pretty evenly split on the joking stuff).
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@Background Pony #8B3F  
>Though tbh, it’s not like the vast majority of users actually read the rules.  
Do you know why people are stupid?It’s because they can’t read.
 
 
That’s the joke…
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If there are installments then it’s fine. That would be made clear by the artist.
What about someone who’s just building a world with their art like Equestria-Prevails does/did? A lot of artists do that.
 
Or publishing illustrations for a fanfic?
 
Art is inherently creative so trying to make exceptions for all the edge cases is futile. There’s a very easy solution, already. And it’s one that was practiced for as long as I remember until just a few weeks ago.
 
To an earlier point…  
@Background Pony #25FA  
Villains in media have story arcs that explain and make clear their shortcomings and the problems with their beliefs. A villain can look cool at certain times in a story, but still be depicted as wrong by the time the story is over. When a villain is only depicted as cool and winning, that basically the definition of propaganda.
What’s the standard for “cool and winning”? Because even the heroes/good guys don’t always win, and they aren’t even always cool. Sometimes they’re not cool and they lose but they were still the good guys. Sometimes the bad guys are unstoppable and it’s a tragedy. And sometimes everyone thought they were the heroes, on top of that.
 
What if I make something that intentionally passes over the suffering the protagonist causes, except for one tiny, subtle snippet - to drive home the point that if you don’t keep your eyes open you can become a horrible villain and not even know it because you simply don’t see the harm you do or minimize it? (which is actually how a lot of dystopias happen IRL, as it happens)
 
Ie, what if the whole point is to be subtle about the fact that certain characters are the baddies even though you didn’t realize it?
 
 
Again, policies that ban some of the best nuances of art aren’t a good idea.
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☀Welcome Princess Celest
That second poll
 
Under “not rule0”  
The first one is pretty funny.  
The second two are really pushing it.  
the last two are straight up gassing.
 
Not sure what to think about this one.
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@Cirrus Light
That image is in the 3rd poll, which is still ongoing.
That it’s even called into question has a freezing effect on things.
 
If the site can’t keep its rules consistent and has to change them to ban more stuff then it tells people it’s not safe to build a community and familiarity here, because your nuanced and subtle fanfic about how and why people fall in love with evil may be banned tomorrow, assuming it’s not already.
 
Even if it’s not a thought they articulate clearly to others or even themselves, it still creates a feeling of “it’s not safe to build myself up here”.
 
I certainly feel it’s not safe, because what’s questionable today is banned next year. Every site only seems to get more strict with time. Seems smarter to set up shop somewhere that’s committed to not rejecting art.
Archive_Anon
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Undesirable
I’m surprised the “walks out of the shower” pic was skirting the line so much.
 
Its probably the most clearly defined example in the group of mocking nazis outright.
Background Pony #FF20
For the newest poll, I disagree with the first one. It’s so obviously over the top with the dabbing that I can’t see anyone except people with the safest senses of humor not getting that it’s a joke.
Background Pony #25FA
Yeah, i’m not seeing how showing Aryanne with a huge grin while gassing zebras is a “joke.” It’s another one of those with zero additional context that would indicate that it is somehow some kind of parody or whatever.
Background Pony #25FA
@Archive_Anon
 
Taking a different meme and changing it into Aryanne simply smiling and engaging in the holocaust isn’t parody. Maybe you’d have a slim leg to stand on if the original meme was included in that posting, but without that any such context is entirely missing.
Background Pony #F329
@Archive_Anon  
I’m guessing it’s becauseit’s just Joke + Pony reaction face.  
You could replace it with any picture of a nazi looking confused and it’d be the same thing, likewise with the Twilight picture.
 
The “Oh the gas is off” is at least attempting to be a parody by having rule63 aryanne be a gas-maintenance guy.
 
The couch meme is confusing me though, how does that relate to the holocaust?
Background Pony #B2FF
The second ruling is odd.  
This one constitutes a deletion:  
>>1633386p (deleted)
 
Meanwhile, this one doesn’t:  

 
I think they’re both clearly jokes or at the very least intended to be humorous in nature, and both make use of gas chambers as killing implements. The only difference is in the context, and in that regard the second is arguably worse as it involves pseudo-racial profiling. The other, meanwhile, leans more into absurdity in tandem with the usual juxtaposition, with Aryanne and, of all other characters, Pinkie, dabbing while they commit murder.  
To clarify again, I think they’re both jokes and that neither should qualify for deletion, I only find which one fell on which side of the ruling odd.
PwnyPony
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Kinship Through Differences - Celebrated the 11th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!

☀Welcome Princess Celest
Yea. seems like some inconsistancy in the votes.
 
Under “rule 0” of the second poll what @Background Pony #9BF5  
said.
 
The last two under the “not rule 0” are not a major deviation from what is up under “rule 0”
 
Everyone that can vote is voting on all the images right? not just some of the images?
PurpleSmart2

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As anti-censorship as I am, I do have to admit that the “Aryanne getting off to gassing” pic disgusts me. I don’t see any way how that could be construed as parody. Perhaps as very edgy and darkest black humor, at most.
Background Pony #25FA
@Background Pony #B2FF
 
The second one you can actually argue is a joke because it has all the elements you’d normally associate with a joke, including the set up and punch line. It’s an abhorrent joke in my view, but you can logically connect the dots. The first one has no set up or punch line. It’s simply a pair of ponies committing the holocaust while dabbing. That’s not a joke. You could call it a meme at most, but you could turn any type of nazi propaganda into a meme.
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