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Rule #0 Policy Refinement Feedback Thread

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Started by Princess Luna
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Background Pony #56B5
Well. I don’t like using the user-blocker script, since it makes actually talking to blocked users impossible, but I guess I’ll use it as a workaround when icons like that come into play. I think as a baseline, I ought to be able to browse this site in such a way that I don’t have to see characters who are identifiably nazis, especially if I’m filtering like I’m supposed to.
 
Barhandar, please keep in mind that I’m not ignoring your comments or being rude; I just literally can’t see your posts from now on. Nothing personal, but I just don’t want to look at that character any more than I have to. Cheers.
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Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Helpful Owl - Drew someone's OC for the 2018 Community Collab
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
A Perfectly Normal Pony - <Barhandar> soundtea: squeeze Glim butt
Speaking Fancy - For help with translations

(twi|pony)booru.org
@Princess Luna  
Basically “reasonably safe-for-work” and “not a rating hidden by Default”. That’s pretty much what we enforce.
So, basically, same thing with different wording? “Reasonably safe-for-work” would exclude most of “suggestive”, which means the only rating left is “safe”; the only argument I can see with that is “is a nominally-safe crop of a higher-rated image higher-rated itself?”.  
The rules revision page is bugged, so the user and time are off by one; the “hate speech” thing was the initial version of what got started this mess recently, not something 5 months ago.
Oh for fuck’s sake, another opaque thing in an inherently “here just for programmers, nobody has worked to make it usable for users” page. Okay, I’m wrong about that then.  
and Aryanne’s mane style is one of the more common ones
Specifically a Rainbow Dash recolor.
 
 
@Background Pony #56B5  
Another problem with “filtered in Default” is that with no cutie mark visible, I could just change her eyes to green and it would become Anti-Anne - an OC made specifically to mock the bias of the rule-changes who is nominally antifa, which is still not filtered in Default; with picture having exact same meaning and implication.  
Also, any adblocker should allow you to remove only the avatar picture.
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Edited
Background Pony #56B5
@Boxless  
Would the stub option allow me to see the text of the post without the icon?
 
Because if so, I’d much rather do that so I can still talk to people.
 
EDIT: I have tested the stub option, and no it does not. Unfortunately, opening the stub does display the avatar so it is of no use to me. I tried.
Posted Report
Edited
Seiken
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Artist -

@Princess Luna  
@Background Pony #56B5
The argument you just presented is basically why I personally don’t think it’s really viable to go after symbols; they are ridiculously easy to replace and it just becomes game of whack-a-mole (where the mole likes to hide among things you shouldn’t whack). A pony’s color scheme being a symbol of hate is absurdity.
 
But going after the Swastika while saying the Swastika on her cutie mark is fine. Thats a loophole for people putting all kind of shit in the cutiemark. And i am not saying go after cutiemarks… i am saying that the rule to after symbols is bollocks in the first place.
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Edited
Boxless

stop using Derpi lmao
@Background Pony #56B5  
No, you still have to open it to read it (that’s the point of the script, it’s a blocker) but you also, unless deliberately exposing yourself, will not see an aryan horse in a profile picture and have flashbacks to frozen peach horse.
Posted Report
Background Pony #56B5
@Boxless
 
Right, but I can’t read just the text and disable avatars and since I want to see Aryanne precisely never, I’ll continue blocking those who use her as icons.
 
Which again I want to stress is nothing personal. I use this site for fun and as a hobby, so I think it’s important to make sure I actually enjoy myself here. That’s all. It’s not a slam against any of you as human beings, I just intensely dislike seeing this character and have decided not to as much as I can help it.
Posted Report
Background Pony #65E2
@Frosku  
It seems like arguing to be able to filter out avatar pictures because someone doesn’t like the color of their skin is not an inclusive rule.
Posted Report
Background Pony #56B5
@Frosku  
@Background Pony #56B5
If you have adblock, you can just right click the avatar and block element.
It would be nice to see tags added to avatars though, and a background pony shown if your avatar would be filtered out.
 
Holy gosh! That actually worked!
 
Thanks, Frosku! I’ve unblocked Barham now, since now I can see his posts without seeing Aryanne. That’s amazing, I had no idea Adblock could just block anything like that.
Posted Report
Lisboeta
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

@Princess Luna  
  • Do not post content that is intended or likely to incite arguments or unruliness. Leeway may be given for artistic value.
  • Do not call for harming others.
  • Do not harass others. This can include namecalling, slanderous speech, or other forms of abusive language.
  • Do not discriminate or advocate for it (such as using a mouthpiece to say racism is good).
 
As previous more and more mod leeway. First point was expanded, gather big around mob and the picture is suddenly against the rules.
 
2 and 3 could work with a decent mod team
 
As your own examples for rule 4 shown when people can tie their action (including political action) to some immutable characteristic they will be protected from discrimination. If they cannot they can be safely discriminated against.
 
Princess Celestia (current one) has promised to lay aside her idea about what derpibooru should be while she is resolving the current “crisis” and be professional. Are you really interested what the user of the site wants? Because however low-quality was the unofficial pool, it seems that mods have even less idea about the state of Derpibooru. Your proposals keep giving mods more and more power - not to banish only things which would actualy threaten existence of DB, not to implement some “no politics” rule, but to support their own opinion by proactive moderation of things they disagree with.
Posted Report
Frosku
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Artist -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)

Vox Exercitus
@Lisboeta  
I really don’t like the word “may” in point 1. In what instance will leeway be given for artistic value vs in what instance will it not? Again, how is this predictable for a user?
Posted Report
Lisboeta
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

@Frosku  
IMO your post reads a little ambiguous so I want to point out that the blockquote in my post is the WIP Rule 0 as posted by the Princess Luna.
 
My own opinion on points 1 and 4 are exactly that they give free reign to the mods and cannot be a basis of a consistent policy
Posted Report
Edited
Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Helpful Owl - Drew someone's OC for the 2018 Community Collab
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
A Perfectly Normal Pony - <Barhandar> soundtea: squeeze Glim butt
Speaking Fancy - For help with translations

(twi|pony)booru.org
@Princess Luna  
  • Do not post content that is intended or likely to incite arguments or unruliness. Leeway may be given for artistic value.
 
>or likely  
ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT. It is unarguably an arbitrary carte blanche to delete “ideologically unwelcome” images. Even “intended” is bad because of how easy it is to interpret it in a biased way.  
  • Do not discriminate or advocate for it (such as using a mouthpiece to say racism is good).
 
“it” what?
Posted Report
Frosku
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Artist -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)

Vox Exercitus
@Barhandar  
Also, discriminate against what? Under the letter of this law, everyone calling to ban Aryanne is discriminating against Nazis. It needs to be specified which groups are protected and which are not.
Posted Report
Armagedonus
Duck - Thinks minorities should make their OWN ponds if they want to swim.
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

ANOTHER QUESTION:  
Could it be possible to have some sort of “support” for putting “soon to be deleted” pictures to other sites?  
Like if picture gets “tagged for deletion” then instead to deletion the picture could be “transporetd” to ponybooru or other Philomena clone?  
I know that “supporting the competition” could be seen as unwise, but it would be better for fandom to have two art galleries (one for “good art” and one for “bad art”) supporting each other like that.  
Hell, even having some sort of “deleted art repository” and being able to “extract” already deleted picture would be good enough.
Posted Report
Background Pony #1450
@Armagedonus  
Why should staff support the very thing they want banned? It doesn’t make sense for them to support content they deemed as wrong and harmful.
Posted Report
Filiecs
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Agreed, this latest revision is less clear than what it was before in some cases.  
“Do not call for harming others.” is MUCH vaguer than “Do not seriously advocate for significant violence.”, unless your entire point is to be unilaterally more strict in that regard.
 
“Do not discriminate or advocate for it”  
You mean the second definition of discriminate, right? Not the one that simply has it mean ‘to be choosy’?  
make an unjust or prejudicial distinction…
 
This is also incredibly vague because of what unjust might mean. Who decides what is ‘just’ or not?
Posted Report
Background Pony #74AE
@Background Pony #56B5  
You could also ask Marker if he can add a spoiler/hide avatar option to the script. It may be possible.
 
@Frosku  
I agree that it isn’t predictable. Maybe replacing “may” with “will” would give artists more expectation that their work will be rewarded while still giving mods “leeway” and “artistic value” to fall back on?
 
@Barhandar  
>”it” what?  
Discrimination, “Do not discriminate or advocate for discrimination […]”, I would assume.
 
@Princess Luna  
If you want to keep ACAB with that reason, please make it very clear in the rule lest you immediately undermine the spirit of the rule. The political intention may be to criticise the police system and thus perfectly valid, but the statement and by extension the acronym are very much discriminatory and inflammatory at face value. Make it clear that occupations are fair game for discrimination (“All imageboard moderators are teaspoons”) as long as it doesn’t get too personal like in the Raripunk pic or advocates for actual harm (as an aside, this actually is similar how German law deals with it). You could also make an exception for slogans like ACAB that have a historical or political significance that is often agreed on to be useful for discourse as long as they’re used appropriately, but I feel like this opens a wide gap for all kinds of shit to slip through and make your life way harder than necessary. For example, the ADL (yes I know, it’s just for the sake of the argument) says that ACAB can be a hate symbol in certain contexts.
Posted Report
Armagedonus
Duck - Thinks minorities should make their OWN ponds if they want to swim.
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Pony #1450  
It is less about “Support content they deemed as wrong and harmful.” and more about “You wanna see content we deemed as wrong and harmful? Go to other site”.  
All of this is about the fact that LOTS of artpieces will be now deleted due to mods “remembering” that rules exist and I do not wish for them to disappear forever, especially due to fact that moving pictures in bulk takes time.
Posted Report
Background Pony #1450
What if content that is wrong and harmful should “disappear forever” instead of being preserved?
Posted Report
Armagedonus
Duck - Thinks minorities should make their OWN ponds if they want to swim.
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Pony #1450  
And it would dissapear forever from this site.  
It would simply appear somewhere else.  
And don’t you dare saying stuff like “what if it deserves to disappear from INTERNET forever”, because there was never a content so vile in this site. (yes, even scat unbrithing diaper shit)
Posted Report
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