The Anti-Censorship DNP Pledge

CottonTales
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@Perplexiah  
BLM is a whole subject matter in progress of defining itself thats pretty complicated and in pieces. parts of it are condemnable depending on what you mean
 
…so you can condemn the movement as long as you’re not like condemning black people
 
LGBT is…not really applicable to the other things? They’re not at all related to hatred for something else or a system of oppression or suppression or you know…anything
 
Like it seems to be an easy line to draw
 
EDIT: btw I’m actually saying you don’t need to ban politics to ban promotion of hateful ideologies. You don’t even need to ban condemning those or other ideologies or memes of the ideology or anything
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Dilarus has now truly proven himself to be an utterly asinine ideologically biased pinhead. Truly he and Commander NorthStar are damn goons who care more about “MY WAY MY WAY #BLM” than free speech. /mlp/, while at times lacking nuance here and there, the same goes for Wootmaster and Dilarus. They don’t fucking realize that humor isn’t something that is funny only if they like it. In addition, they are likely also ignorant of the origins of the swastika, which has been proven to predate the Egyptian ankh in its use.
Perplexiah
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@CottonTales  
unfortunately it’s not that simple, people will have different opinions on where to draw the line, including derpi staff (and even they can’t all agree on things apparently), thus the only real solution is to not censor these sorts of things whatsoever
 
also it’s entirely subjective what counts as “promoting” a “hateful ideology” (something something socioeconomic theory), it’d be great if the whole world agreed that [thing] is good and [other thing] is bad, but that’s just not the case at all  
like you said – sometimes parts of “good” things are condemnable, and occasionally those parts are enough for some people to denounce the whole thing
 
if you try to keep politics in general whilst banning whatever the mods decide is “promoting hateful ideologies” you get an echo chamber, whether that’s good or bad depends on if you share the opinions being echoed or not
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They usually do their sketchy stuff out of the public eye. They have whole organizations dedicated to running mass-flagging cons on hosts, registrars, and these days even cloudflare. And they all operate privately, willing to be the Personal Army for anyone who knows the right kind of person, and who has an appropriate victim in mind.
 
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CottonTales
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
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The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Ruler of Sheep
@Perplexiah  
Oh it is entirely up to the mods to decide how a rule is to be understood and I am actually not vouching for their ability to enforce the rule as I think would be correct. Most of this is more for intellectual curiosity on the topic rather than a true proposal of what rules will/should go up
 
But for me how I understand it:  
promotion is encouragement to join and glorification of, literally nothing else would fall under promotion
 
Hateful Ideologies are ideologies that advocate and practice hostility or violence towards members of a race, nation, religion, gender, sexual orientation, economic class, things I’m probably missing but could come up with, etc.
 
You can actually denounce roughly anything you want the way I’m putting it, centrism, capitalism, socialism, marxism, nazism, tribalism, ismism.
 
The literal only things you can not do is glorify or actually, no joke, put up basically recruitment posters for ideologies whos prime directives are fucking up a group of people
Perplexiah
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@Perplexiah  
i don’t think i have anything more to say but i just wanted to finish by saying  
the only way people will ever unanimously agree that one thing is good and the other is bad is through discourse, and by censoring “bad” or “wrong” views you leave no room for debate, nobody will ever be convinced by your way of thinking, they’re merely going to feel alienated and left to seek other like-minded individuals who may not be as virtuous, which is mostly likely the kind of person you think you’re ostracising in the first place
 
i’m going to drop the ambiguity here because i want to make this very clear for people who advocate for censorship
 
the alt-right preys on people who have been banned from their communities for “being nazis” and who “have nowhere else to go”, and they proceed to indoctrinate those people into actually becoming nazis  
is this really what you want?
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Giving away PF links will probably be my only use for the site at the moment. :^)
 
In any case:
 
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Osha
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Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.
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A Perfectly Normal Pony - <Osha>: I replaced it with my dads sperm
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2017) - Celebrated Derpibooru's five year anniversary with friends.

Undesireable
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@CottonTales  
The point is that even if it’s an “easy” line to draw, every single different person will draw it in a different place. Without a very stringent definition of what to ban - and “hateful ideologies” is as far from stringent as it gets - it will get enforced differently and end up in either one-sided (majority of enforcers share opinion on something) law or a purity spiral (enforcers disagree and each sub-group bans something individual, ending up banning everything).  
@Perplexiah  
Yeah, this. Censorship is a binary issue - either you censor nothing, or you will end up censoring everything eventually. And obviously worse if it comes with ultra loaded definition of what is being censored and extremely biased enforcers from the get-go.  
and even they can’t all agree on things apparently
You can’t reach agreement if you, you know, don’t talk with the staff, instead sitting in your fortress of twittertude talking to mysterious “professionals” whose opinion mysteriously matches the worst possible option save for crashing it all with no survivors - or was ignored altogether, just like actual staff’s.
 
@CottonTales  
Congratulations, you’re morally better than every single person in the twittermob, through providing actual definitions.
 
@team blueplant  
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