mjangelvortex 
Lady of Ships and Birbs
@LightningBolt
And that’s perfectly okay too. Quite fun and unique even.
And that’s perfectly okay too. Quite fun and unique even.
Culture, Biology, and Dietary Headcanons
LightningBolt 
![Thread Starter - [NO SPOILER, LEAK-FREE] Season 8 Discussion and Speculation: Discovery Family airings](https://derpicdn.net/badges/2017/7/2/0bd59d4eff9c3aeaad.svg "Thread Starter - [NO SPOILER, LEAK-FREE] Season 8 Discussion and Speculation: Discovery Family airings")
Senior Moderator
Undead inside
@mjangelvortex
To show how rounded the world is, there has to be at least a few very unskilled and a few very skilled ponies to make the average look more average.
To show how rounded the world is, there has to be at least a few very unskilled and a few very skilled ponies to make the average look more average.
Ardashir
That bit about them being scared of Nightmare Moon reminds me of an old idea of mine that the Nightmare was originally the form Luna wore when she fought to protect ponies. That is, protect them from griffons and dragons and such back when they preyed on ponies.
As for the Nightmare Night celebration, perhaps they celebrate other holidays. Alternatively, maybe they are scared by it. It’s a pretty big misconception that predators are always tough and are never scared. Remember that in real life that prey species often have to fight predators back (since if they don’t, they’ll die). And many prey animals have hurt predators, even to the point where the predator has been hurt to the point they can’t hunt anymore.Now try combining that with sapience, the ability to use of magic, the ability to fly, the ability to kick and trample with powerful hooves, the ability to possibly maim someone with a large horn, the ability to engulf the sun, and the ability to spy on and alter someone’s dreams. I’m sure predators can and would be plenty scared of Nightmare Moon.
That bit about them being scared of Nightmare Moon reminds me of an old idea of mine that the Nightmare was originally the form Luna wore when she fought to protect ponies. That is, protect them from griffons and dragons and such back when they preyed on ponies.
mjangelvortex
Lady of Ships and Birbs
@Latecomer
Yeah. She’s a good example of that.
@Ardashir
Hey. That’s not that bad of an idea. I like it.
Yeah. She’s a good example of that.
@Ardashir
Hey. That’s not that bad of an idea. I like it.
Latecomer
@mjangelvortex
My theory was that she was a boogeymare Luna set up to defeat because her subjects didn’t appreciate the importance of her role in protecting dreams - only for it to backfire horribly.
My theory was that she was a boogeymare Luna set up to defeat because her subjects didn’t appreciate the importance of her role in protecting dreams - only for it to backfire horribly.
Ardashir
@mjangelvortex
Thanks.
Makes me imagine a scene where dragons, griffons, etc. are celebrating their first Nightmare Night in Canterlot. Luna pays a visit in her Nightmare Moon form, and next thing you know the dragons and griffons are hiding behind various fillies and colts, begging for someone to save them before NMM wipes them out like she did to great-great-granddad.
Thanks.
Makes me imagine a scene where dragons, griffons, etc. are celebrating their first Nightmare Night in Canterlot. Luna pays a visit in her Nightmare Moon form, and next thing you know the dragons and griffons are hiding behind various fillies and colts, begging for someone to save them before NMM wipes them out like she did to great-great-granddad.
LightningBolt
Senior Moderator
Undead inside
@LightningBolt
Was thinking about the gender/sex magic stuff again recently so I’m gonna add a little more to it.
Basic ‘wow look at that i have a cunt/penis for a day’ magic is perfectly okay to do and mostly harmless provided you know what you’re doing, but you cannot do that for something longer term, ie, no doing that to get gay babies, the length of time required for pregnancy would fuck with the brain and body, and there’s also no guarantee on fertility or even having eggs/sperm. If you wanna dick around (ha) with the opposite sex’s genitals for a day and nothing deeper or long-term, you can without any repercussions. Just don’t go around flaunting it to the public as it’s illegal in most places, and don’t forget to change back or you can fuck up your brain, or the brain of whoever you did it on. Good way of torturing somepony, I suppose, perform a genital swap spell on them and leave them to their own devices and watch their mental state degrade until they go mad. But I don’t recommend you do that. :V
Anyway, these headcanons formed as a result of me wanting to avoid the ‘i can just pretend to be a mare in public so we can act like its not gay’ or ‘we can have a gay baby now’ cliches, and wanting to just add more depth to magic. But also without fully shutting out short-term safe fun, and with enough history and backstory that you could get away with it in some places, for better or worse.
Also nothing in Magic Duel contradicts this. High level unicorn spell, yes, very, preferably formal training.
Was thinking about the gender/sex magic stuff again recently so I’m gonna add a little more to it.
Basic ‘wow look at that i have a cunt/penis for a day’ magic is perfectly okay to do and mostly harmless provided you know what you’re doing, but you cannot do that for something longer term, ie, no doing that to get gay babies, the length of time required for pregnancy would fuck with the brain and body, and there’s also no guarantee on fertility or even having eggs/sperm. If you wanna dick around (ha) with the opposite sex’s genitals for a day and nothing deeper or long-term, you can without any repercussions. Just don’t go around flaunting it to the public as it’s illegal in most places, and don’t forget to change back or you can fuck up your brain, or the brain of whoever you did it on. Good way of torturing somepony, I suppose, perform a genital swap spell on them and leave them to their own devices and watch their mental state degrade until they go mad. But I don’t recommend you do that. :V
Anyway, these headcanons formed as a result of me wanting to avoid the ‘i can just pretend to be a mare in public so we can act like its not gay’ or ‘we can have a gay baby now’ cliches, and wanting to just add more depth to magic. But also without fully shutting out short-term safe fun, and with enough history and backstory that you could get away with it in some places, for better or worse.
Also nothing in Magic Duel contradicts this. High level unicorn spell, yes, very, preferably formal training.
Random-Rambling 
tinyurl.com/dymbb3a
@LightningBolt
I doubt the victim would “go mad” even after a long-term change. Unless you believe sufferers of gender dysphoria are “mad”.
Don’t get me wrong, it would be VERY uncomfortable and would likely cause absolute havoc in the body due to hormones, but it wouldn’t drive them insane.
I doubt the victim would “go mad” even after a long-term change. Unless you believe sufferers of gender dysphoria are “mad”.
Don’t get me wrong, it would be VERY uncomfortable and would likely cause absolute havoc in the body due to hormones, but it wouldn’t drive them insane.
LightningBolt
Senior Moderator
Undead inside
@Random-Rambling
You interpret my words literally if that’s what you thought. :v
No I meant just the ‘fun’ effects of gender dysphoria, which is very unfun and not really pleasant to even explain, so I kept it vague in a way I thought people understood. P:
You interpret my words literally if that’s what you thought. :v
No I meant just the ‘fun’ effects of gender dysphoria, which is very unfun and not really pleasant to even explain, so I kept it vague in a way I thought people understood. P:
Background Pony #4D79
Apropos of nothing, there’s something about that idea that reminds me of historical texts that offer a bland explanation on some practice or idea has persisted into modern times that, when you pay attention and think about it, has some really seriously messed up origins.
*“While many jokes and stories persist regarding the gender swap spell’s continued existence in the Canterlot Codex of Forbidden Magic, few ponies have a full understanding of why it is there in the first place. The most common story, of course, predates the founding of Equestria itself, and holds that the magic enchantment was stricken from record by Princess Platinum, enraged over rumors that her infrequent public appearances were due to the difficult magic it took to conceal her ‘real’ gender. Yet most scholars believe the actual reason dates centuries earlier to the reign of the unicorn king Germanicus, who is reputed to have sired dozens of colts using the broken, unwillingly transformed bodies of his enemies.”*
Basic ‘wow look at that i have a cunt/penis for a day’ magic is perfectly okay to do and mostly harmless provided you know what you’re doing, but you cannot do that for something longer term, ie, no doing that to get gay babies, the length of time required for pregnancy would fuck with the brain and body
and don’t forget to change back or you can fuck up your brain, or the brain of whoever you did it on. Good way of torturing somepony, I suppose, perform a genital swap spell on them and leave them to their own devices and watch their mental state degrade until they go mad.
Apropos of nothing, there’s something about that idea that reminds me of historical texts that offer a bland explanation on some practice or idea has persisted into modern times that, when you pay attention and think about it, has some really seriously messed up origins.
*“While many jokes and stories persist regarding the gender swap spell’s continued existence in the Canterlot Codex of Forbidden Magic, few ponies have a full understanding of why it is there in the first place. The most common story, of course, predates the founding of Equestria itself, and holds that the magic enchantment was stricken from record by Princess Platinum, enraged over rumors that her infrequent public appearances were due to the difficult magic it took to conceal her ‘real’ gender. Yet most scholars believe the actual reason dates centuries earlier to the reign of the unicorn king Germanicus, who is reputed to have sired dozens of colts using the broken, unwillingly transformed bodies of his enemies.”*
Background Pony #4D79
@LightningBolt
The spoilered bit? Nothing, actually. It was the idea what came to mind when I read your post, and I just more or less made it all up.
The spoilered bit? Nothing, actually. It was the idea what came to mind when I read your post, and I just more or less made it all up.
LightningBolt
Senior Moderator
Undead inside
@Background Pony #F15C
Oh, lol, figured it was from a fanfic and I was like “wow that sounds a lot like my concepts”.
Guess that explains why it does.
Oh, lol, figured it was from a fanfic and I was like “wow that sounds a lot like my concepts”.
Guess that explains why it does.
Frustration in Excelsis
Worldbuilding Addict
This seemed like the kind of thing that people here would find interesting; there’s a description to go with it, although the bulk of it has to do with the artist’s broader fan universe specifically.
Ardashir
Has anyone ever done any work/theorizing on how dragon families work? Or if they even exist as we’d understand a ‘family’? Going purely by the show, we know that dragons have weddings (that one EqG special where the ladies end up in Equestria briefly). But that seems the normal limit on their family sentiment. They chase their kids out when they’re about to get wings, leaving them at the mercy of various dragon-eating predators. The only time we saw their nests the eggs looked to have been more or less abandoned (maybe Celestia didn’t swipe Spike’s egg, but rescued it?).
Dragons really don’t seem to care much about their kids or each other. Of course in the show this is to make them distinct from the ponies, but it makes me wonder how the dragons manage to survive their childhoods. Unless the simple answer is ‘most of them don’t, that’s why we’re not buried eyeball-deep in dragons.’
So, has anyone done any thinking on dragon home life?
Dragons really don’t seem to care much about their kids or each other. Of course in the show this is to make them distinct from the ponies, but it makes me wonder how the dragons manage to survive their childhoods. Unless the simple answer is ‘most of them don’t, that’s why we’re not buried eyeball-deep in dragons.’
So, has anyone done any thinking on dragon home life?
Latecomer
@Ardashir
Well, they’re pretty tough and can eat anything, so there are worse creatures to let grow up on their own.
Still, if Smoulder and Garble are true siblings, there probably is some degree of family. And didn’t Garble insult Spike by implying a puny runt like him should still be with his mother? Heck, even the “kicking out at molt” thing implies parental care beforehand.
Well, they’re pretty tough and can eat anything, so there are worse creatures to let grow up on their own.
Still, if Smoulder and Garble are true siblings, there probably is some degree of family. And didn’t Garble insult Spike by implying a puny runt like him should still be with his mother? Heck, even the “kicking out at molt” thing implies parental care beforehand.
mjangelvortex
Lady of Ships and Birbs
@Latecomer
You’re correct. I think Dragons do take care of their young and when they molt, maybe the teenagers move and then live together until they’re big and strong enough to live on their own.
You’re correct. I think Dragons do take care of their young and when they molt, maybe the teenagers move and then live together until they’re big and strong enough to live on their own.
Background Pony #6E1D
Has anyone ever done any work/theorizing on how dragon families work? Or if they even exist as we’d understand a ‘family’? Going purely by the show, we know that dragons have weddings (that one EqG special where the ladies end up in Equestria briefly). But that seems the normal limit on their family sentiment. They chase their kids out when they’re about to get wings, leaving them at the mercy of various dragon-eating predators. The only time we saw their nests the eggs looked to have been more or less abandoned (maybe Celestia didn’t swipe Spike’s egg, but rescued it?).Dragons really don’t seem to care much about their kids or each other. Of course in the show this is to make them distinct from the ponies, but it makes me wonder how the dragons manage to survive their childhoods. Unless the simple answer is ‘most of them don’t, that’s why we’re not buried eyeball-deep in dragons.’So, has anyone done any thinking on dragon home life?
Yes, actually, there has been some discussion of that. Admittedly I had to double check, but the item below appeared here a few pages back.
Doesn’t cover all your questions, but at least it does address some similar thoughts to your own.
@Frustration in Excelsis
Doesn’t cover all your questions, but at least it does address some similar thoughts to your own.
@Frustration in Excelsis
Porting over a discussion that cropped up on one of the season 9 discussion threads:My complete headcanon after seeing Sweet and Smoky is that all the adult dragons are currently asleep (we saw in season 1 that they sleep for hundreds of years), leaving Ember as the ruler of a bunch of kids and teenagers. Thus explaining why the dragon lands appear to be Little Lamplight at the moment.@gingerninja666
As an addendum to that, you should add that every century or so they wake up and return to their home.Twilight Sparkle: “But Fluttershy, the great dragon migration happens only once in a generation! Do you really wanna pass up a chance like that?”– “Dragon Quest”Which, now that I’m thinking about it, might actually explain where the eggs in “Sweet and Smoky” come from. Perhaps the adults awaken after sleeping for years to return home, reproduce, and then leave to resume their slumber.You know, this is actually a fairly workable headcanon. It explains why the adults are never around, why Ember apparently rules over a bunch of kids and teens and why there just happens to be a mess of jumbled eggs that nobody but Ember is looking after. I might just have to adopt it myself.@Frustration in Excelsis
If there is one small flaw in that idea, it would probably be that one throwaway line from Smolder in “Father Knows Beast”.Smolder: “Honestly, this is Dragon 101. Usually dragon parents teach this stuff.”I don’t think that entirely invalidates it, though, because she doesn’t really specify a timeframe or any of the details involved in that. Given how long dragons live, it’s entirely possible there are moments in between migrating and sleeping that they find time to meet up with and teach things to their young.Alternatively, perhaps that’s another thing they accomplish at migration time. I mean it only took Smolder a small part of a day to get Spike up to speed on flying, so it’s not like we’re talking about lengthy lessons here. And it would explain a lot about the teen dragons too. They remain in the dragon lands not just because it offers all the things they require until they reach the adult stage of their life, but also so that they can meet their family (for possibly the first time) when the migration comes around.Speaking of the dragon lands, do you think they may also serve as protection for the younger dragons? I know it seems a bit odd to see it like that, but we know there are giant birds who come looking for dragons when they begin to molt. I bet volcanic venting masks that scent.@Background Pony #50BE
Or alternatively alternatively, there may be a few adult dragons awake at any given time, but the migration/breeding season is the only time they’re all up and awake at once.@Frustration in Excelsis
That could certainly be the case. I mean the former dragon lord apparently watched over eggs as part of his duties, so there has to have been at least one full adult around. No reason why there couldn’t be a handful of others as well.
Frustration in Excelsis
Worldbuilding Addict
So, to breathe a bit of life back into this thread. One thing I like to think of sometimes is what fantasy worlds would consider mythic and fantastical, especially given the tendency for all of a work’s in-universe myths and legends to turn. out to be true in some capacity. MLP generally seems to use what we would consider pulp and soft science fiction (although, given Daring Do, the fictionality of even that can be called into question) so I like to think that what we would consider trappings of science and realistic fiction is what a fantasy world would consider fantastical.
For example, I like to think that the residents of the MLP world would think of dinosaurs the way we think of dragons.
Suppose, let’s say, that a very early pony culture is beginning to feel out the world beyond its immediate homeland. Traders and explorers come back with stories of the strange things that live in distant lands and, as they must even in a land based on our own myths, things get a bit garbled and confused.
Perhaps early explorers get rocs and dragons – perfectly normal creatures, really – a tad mixed up. Perhaps they give one the characteristics of the other – a dragon with a roc’s beak, or a flightless roc with a dragon’s jaws and tail. The myths catch on, and get embellished over time – perhaps roc heads get swapped out with those of other birds, like parrots or ducks, and perhaps regular draconic thagomizers serve as inspiration for clubs and whips and even more outlandish natural weapons.
Of course, by the time dragons and rocs enter the growing corpus of scientific knowledge, they’re entirely unlike the now well-established dinosaur myths, and no longer associated beyond a certain point. Most ponies continue to believe that dinosaurs, as separate from your commonplace giant birds and fire-breathing sapient reptiles, exist just beyond the current borders, right over beyond those hills there, surely, same as explorers and historians were always dead certain that dragons and other monsters were commonplace just beyond the known world’s current edges.
Anyway. The theropods and the four-legged herbivore groups serve as a rough analog for Western and Eastern dragon traditions – nominal connection, but clearly different appearances and attitudes that are nonetheless consistent within each group. The profusions of crests, horns and tail weapons can serve as a parallel to dragons’ breath weapons in our fiction – instead of inventing exotic exhalations for a work’s varieties of dragons you’d make up some ornate or offensive implement to attach to the creature’s face or tail.
Relatedly, I could see robots as a rough analog for golems and other constructs, and science and supertechnology as a parallel for magic in a world where magic is a known quantity and likely a lot less mystified than it is for use.
For example, I like to think that the residents of the MLP world would think of dinosaurs the way we think of dragons.
Suppose, let’s say, that a very early pony culture is beginning to feel out the world beyond its immediate homeland. Traders and explorers come back with stories of the strange things that live in distant lands and, as they must even in a land based on our own myths, things get a bit garbled and confused.
Perhaps early explorers get rocs and dragons – perfectly normal creatures, really – a tad mixed up. Perhaps they give one the characteristics of the other – a dragon with a roc’s beak, or a flightless roc with a dragon’s jaws and tail. The myths catch on, and get embellished over time – perhaps roc heads get swapped out with those of other birds, like parrots or ducks, and perhaps regular draconic thagomizers serve as inspiration for clubs and whips and even more outlandish natural weapons.
Of course, by the time dragons and rocs enter the growing corpus of scientific knowledge, they’re entirely unlike the now well-established dinosaur myths, and no longer associated beyond a certain point. Most ponies continue to believe that dinosaurs, as separate from your commonplace giant birds and fire-breathing sapient reptiles, exist just beyond the current borders, right over beyond those hills there, surely, same as explorers and historians were always dead certain that dragons and other monsters were commonplace just beyond the known world’s current edges.
Anyway. The theropods and the four-legged herbivore groups serve as a rough analog for Western and Eastern dragon traditions – nominal connection, but clearly different appearances and attitudes that are nonetheless consistent within each group. The profusions of crests, horns and tail weapons can serve as a parallel to dragons’ breath weapons in our fiction – instead of inventing exotic exhalations for a work’s varieties of dragons you’d make up some ornate or offensive implement to attach to the creature’s face or tail.
Relatedly, I could see robots as a rough analog for golems and other constructs, and science and supertechnology as a parallel for magic in a world where magic is a known quantity and likely a lot less mystified than it is for use.
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