Season 9 Discussion Thread [NO SPOILERS, DF airings only]

Poison Trail
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@Spinny
 
You’re putting in way more thought into this than the writer for this episode did.
 
>Retcons previous episodes either willfully or due to a lack of caring.
 
>Frames characters in a way that isn’t consistent with previous appearances.
 
>Ignores established character dynamics and goes for the obvious solution that breaks the setting apart.
 
All to get that “Golden Ending” of everybody getting along no matter what. It’s such a blatant textbook example of what gets fiction denied and laughed at for so brazenly not getting it. Except this has been written by a “professional” and has somehow went through Hasbro’s gatekeepers, which is… pretty much the one technicality preventing this from being legit fix-fiction.
Vivace
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@Spinny  
It’s reasonable to believe that considering that Daring Do has unintentionally caused strife in Southern Equestria due to her adventures. Just because you have noble intentions doesn’t mean you can’t accidentally cause others grief. Ahuizotl is more an anti-hero who, despite your objections, does have a perspective in all this. Btw, it’s ok to have characters who do a bad as your favs.
RaineV1

@Poison Trail  
On top of that the episode breaks the biggest and most important part of Daring Do in universe, that she’s supposed to be a fictional character. So from the point of view of average ponies some guy writes a fixfic about another ponies character, somehow gets it published, and they instantly believe that’s the so called “true story” of that fictional character. Then these ponies, in Daring Do cosplay despite now hating the character, are bitching at Yearling for lying to them about the fictional character she invented.
 
As a side note, Equestria must have no copyright laws for him to do this. It would be hilarious if the episode had had Daring Do sue him for using her character in his story.
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Rewatching while screencapping.
 
HAH
 
Fluttershy: “Wow, you two make a great team.”  
Rainbow: “Yeah, I’m not sure how I think about that.”
 
That seems like a definite callout to the reactions they expected from the fans. Some positive, some negative.
Background Pony #86C3
Willful ignorance, huh? Okay, let’s assume that for whatever reason, this jungle, unlike literally the rest of Equestria cannot maintain its own climate. It needs the Rings of Scorchero to maintain the sweltering heat that presumably will not disturb the habitats of all the jungle animals, or even kill them off, but instead, it will provide a more suitable habitat for them to live.
Two things. First, it is kind of funny that you have a problem with the idea that this jungle might not maintain its own climate and rely instead on magic artifacts to do so, when the very first season of this show established that the ruler of Equestria controls the sun, and pegasus ponies both make and control the weather. I mean, they even established that one of the things that freaked the ponies of Ponyville out about the Everfree Forest (originally) was that it had it’s own weather and growth without outside help. So really, if that was the case, it wouldn’t be at all out of place with the rest of the world.
 
Second, I do not think the episode “Daring Don’t” establishes in any way that the rings are needed to maintain the climate the jungle has when everyone shows up there. The reinterpretation of the events that I (and I presume a few others here) are trying to make is that using the rings will make the heat more intense and unbearable. Still tolerable for the creatures already living there, of course, but detrimental to any outsider venturing in. Which would be exactly the kind of thing useful to anyone trying to guard the area from intruders.
 
 
@Poison Trail  
You’re putting in way more thought into this than the writer for this episode did.
>Retcons previous episodes either willfully or due to a lack of caring.
>Frames characters in a way that isn’t consistent with previous appearances.
>Ignores established character dynamics and goes for the obvious solution that breaks the setting apart.
All to get that “Golden Ending” of everybody getting along no matter what.
You know, those writer related comments are getting a little old. You may be entitled to have a negative opinion of their work, but assuming that it could only be the result of ignorance or not caring is more than a little insulting.
 
And I don’t see where you’re getting inconsistent behavior or ignored character dynamics from. Is Caballeron not ultimately shown to be a sneaky and cunning thief in it for the money, like he’s always been shown to be in the past? Is Daring Do not shown to be a bold adventurer ready to rush in and stop his plans, as she’s always been shown doing in the past? Is Ahuizotl not still there trying to stop them, violent and ferocious as he’s always been shown to be in the past? They are all portrayed exactly the same, really. The only real difference in any of this is Fluttershy doing what none of them have ever done, and what has been a part of her element from the very beginning, and listening to them beyond the dramatic movie serial style declarations they’re all parodies of.
Vivace
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@Spinny  
Oh, yeah, that’s right! Your argument rests on the false premise that the rest of Equestria can maintain its own climate. As #1370 reminded, pegasi control the weather for all of Equestria except the Everfree Forest.
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Popping in real quick to share my two bits on the episode:
 
I liked it. I liked how Ahuizotl’s main grievance was that the other two kept barging into his home and stealing his crap, which personally reminds me of how explorers and archaeologists helping themselves to other people’s artifacts and sites has been the cause of… a fair few controversies in real life. I mean, take the controversies around the British Museum’s collections alone – people having their stuff stolen from under their noses and shipped to museums and private institutions halfway around the globe is a real problem!
 
Seeing Fluttershy pick away at Caballeron’s villainy through sheer, unrelenting niceness was also a delight.
 
If I have any real gripes, they’re the same ones I always have with Daring Do episodes – namely that I honestly think that her having kept her charade secret for as long as she has while keeping such an extremely public profile with both of her personas really stretches belief, even by the setting’s standards.
 
@Background Pony #1370  
Two things. First, it is kind of funny that you have a problem with the idea that this jungle might not maintain its own climate and rely instead on magic artifacts to do so, when the very first season of this show established that the ruler of Equestria controls the sun, and pegasus ponies both make and control the weather. I mean, they even established that one of the things that freaked the ponies of Ponyville out about the Everfree Forest (originally) was that it had it’s own weather and growth without outside help. So really, if that was the case, it wouldn’t be at all out of place with the rest of the world.
 
Hell, Equestrian trees can’t even shed their old leaves without outside aid.
DerpyFast
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Two things. First, it is kind of funny that you have a problem with the idea that this jungle might not maintain its own climate and rely instead on magic artifacts to do so, when the very first season of this show established that the ruler of Equestria controls the sun, and pegasus ponies both make and control the weather. I mean, they even established that one of the things that freaked the ponies of Ponyville out about the Everfree Forest (originally) was that it had it’s own weather and growth without outside help. So really, if that was the case, it wouldn’t be at all out of place with the rest of the world.
 
Applejack: The Everfree Forest just ain’t natural. The plants grow…
Fluttershy: Animals care for themselves…
Rainbow Dash: And the clouds move…
Applejack, Fluttershy, and Rainbow Dash: All on their own!
 
Not to mention, in Equestria, weather is made in a factory.
 
You’d think the people who get hung up on small inconsistencies and complain about the writers not watching the show…
 
You’d really think they would remember this fundamental detail about the setting that the show went out of its way to emphasize early on.
 
Also, if the ceremony was going to burn the entire basin, you’d think the natives would be trying to stop it, not protecting the creature carrying it it out.
 
full
 
But no, it’s totally the writers who haven’t watched Daring Don’t you guys!
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Humata, Hukhta, Hvarshta
The Beginning Of The End:8.7  
Uprooted:9.1  
Twilight’s Seven:9.2  
The Point of No Return:9.4  
Common Ground:9.2  
She’s All Yak:9.0  
Frenemies: 9.3  
Sweet and Smoky:8.2  
Going to Seed:7.0  
Student Counsel:9.4  
The Last Crusade:9.3  
Between Dark and Dawn:9.0  
The Last Laugh:9.5  
2, 4, 6, Greaaat:8.8  
A Trivial Pursuit: 7.5  
The Summer Sun Setback: ∅  
She Talks To Angel: 9.0  
Dragon Dropped: 9.3  
A Horse Shoe-In:9.4  
Daring Doubt: 8.8
 
Oh, so it means you did edit your Friendship Journal before you published it?
 
 
 

 
@Background Pony #1370  
Willful ignorance, huh? Okay, let’s assume that for whatever reason, this jungle, unlike literally the rest of Equestria cannot maintain its own climate. It needs the Rings of Scorchero to maintain the sweltering heat that presumably will not disturb the habitats of all the jungle animals, or even kill them off, but instead, it will provide a more suitable habitat for them to live.
Two things. First, it is kind of funny that you have a problem with the idea that this jungle might not maintain its own climate and rely instead on magic artifacts to do so, when the very first season of this show established that the ruler of Equestria controls the sun, and pegasus ponies both make and control the weather. I mean, they even established that one of the things that freaked the ponies of Ponyville out about the Everfree Forest (originally) was that it had it’s own weather and growth without outside help. So really, if that was the case, it wouldn’t be at all out of place with the rest of the world.
Second, I do not think the episode “Daring Don’t” establishes in any way that the rings are needed to maintain the climate the jungle has when everyone shows up there. The reinterpretation of the events that I (and I presume a few others here) are trying to make is that using the rings will make the heat more intense and unbearable. Still tolerable for the creatures already living there, of course, but detrimental to any outsider venturing in. Which would be exactly the kind of thing useful to anyone trying to guard the area from intruders.
You’re putting in way more thought into this than the writer for this episode did.
>Retcons previous episodes either willfully or due to a lack of caring.
>Frames characters in a way that isn’t consistent with previous appearances.
>Ignores established character dynamics and goes for the obvious solution that breaks the setting apart.
All to get that “Golden Ending” of everybody getting along no matter what.
You know, those writer related comments are getting a little old. You may be entitled to have a negative opinion of their work, but assuming that it could only be the result of ignorance or not caring is more than a little insulting.
And I don’t see where you’re getting inconsistent behavior or ignored character dynamics from. Is Caballeron not ultimately shown to be a sneaky and cunning thief in it for the money, like he’s always been shown to be in the past? Is Daring Do not shown to be a bold adventurer ready to rush in and stop his plans, as she’s always been shown doing in the past? Is Ahuizotl not still there trying to stop them, violent and ferocious as he’s always been shown to be in the past? They are all portrayed exactly the same, really. The only real difference in any of this is Fluttershy doing what none of them have ever done, and what has been a part of her element from the very beginning, and listening to them beyond the dramatic movie serial style declarations they’re all parodies of.
Magma_ERuptiOn
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I read this shit?
New episode was alright, could be predicted which way things were going to go especially once it turned out the artifact compelled people to tell the truth but I still enjoyed the proceedings.
 
  1. Frenemies  
  2. The Beginning of the End  
  3. Between Dark and Dawn  
  4. The Summer Sun setback  
  5. Sparkle’s Seven  
  6. The Last Laugh  
  7. Common Ground  
  8. A Horse Shoe-In  
  9. Student Counsel  
  10. She Talks To Angel  
  11. The Last Crusade  
  12. 2 4 6 Greaaat  
  13. Sweet & Smoky  
  14. Daring Doubt  
  15. A Trivial Pursuit  
  16. Going To Seed  
  17. The Point of No Return  
  18. Dragon Dropped  
  19. Uprooted  
  20. She’s All Yak
RaineV1

Still tolerable for the creatures already living there, of course,
 
And how exactly do you know that this part is true? This seems like a big increase in the heat if it’s meant to keep outsiders from entering. If it’s just like an extra ten degrees that isn’t going to stop someone looking for a huge payday. Not to mention that water systems require certain temperatures. Endless heat of this level (likely over a hundred degrees constantly) will dry up a lot of the water in the area, which guess what? Is harmful to the animals. His apparent goal was to stop intruders. He doesn’t need the animals for that if it gets hot enough.
Spinny
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@Background Pony #1370  
@DerpyFast
 
Okay, so now we’re accepting that arbitrary magical rings are needed for a habitable climate in the jungle. Well, there’s another little tidbit from Daring Don’t that I’m quite curious about, then.
 
Daring Do: You’re stealing the ring to give to him so that his hold on the Fortress of Talocan can be good for eight centuries as foretold by prophecy!
 
If the rings are all about doing good things for the jungle, why exactly are they going to ensure that Ahuizotl maintains a hold on a fortress, presumably the one in which those natives live (and whom I assume are some kind of tribal cult dedicated to ensuring that he stays in power)? Kinda seems like there’s actually something in it for him, doesn’t there? Like it’s not completely altruistic or necessarily for the good of the jungle. Oh, and prophecy? This was actually prophesied?! That’s quite interesting for a ritual of which the primary purpose is presumably a necessity for the jungle’s environment.
 
And have we yet to take into consideration the obvious? That Daring Do outright says that this would be “dooming the valley?” I mean, Lord knows the once-great Daring Do’s credibility is so far down the shitter at this point that what she says shouldn’t actually matter, but surely if there’s a prophecy about all this, maybe that’s where she got her information in the first place? That if there’s a prophecy, maybe it outright says that this will dry up all water sources and bring about the deaths of the creatures living in the jungle?
 
Look, I really don’t see how I’m the unreasonable one for suggesting that maybe, just maybe, this blatant attempt to whitewash Ahuizotl’s past actions doesn’t exactly fit all wrapped up perfectly with a nice little bow. That it’s absolutely ridiculous that the mane six’s own actions in an episode can be so blatantly and retroactively turned on their head to suggest that what they were doing was wrong. And that this is the sour note that Daring Do’s legacy deserves to die on–her being washed up and finished while were once arch-nemesis enjoys newfound success as a writer.
 
Oh, and the notion that writers haven’t watched all the episodes isn’t exactly farfetched. I remember a few years ago either Larson or Rogers said that some new writers who are brought on do not bother to watch through them all.
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Okay, I guess.
@Spinny  
The one who said that new writers didn’t even bother to watch the series was Larson. He also said that as soon Faust and Renzetti left, the series’s entire direction also went to hell and the show became whatever the Lauren of the Week wanted it to be.
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This season seems to have the most controversal episodes yet.
 
Like almost every single episode has conflicting opinions.
Background Pony #40C5
@Anonycat  
Well, this explains some things, like how cutie marks keep flip-flopping from “just an outward symbol of what a pony’s destiny/talent is” to “a literal magic tattoo that if blocked/lost means the pony loses the talent associated with it”.
Spinny
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@Anonycat
 
Honestly though, in this instance, I would assume that the writer would have likely watched Daring Don’t if they were planning on pulling this move. Probably not recently, though.
Spinny
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@rdibp
 
With the series finale on the horizon, I’m quite confident that we ain’t seen nothing yet.
 
As for myself, this is the most offense I’ve taken towards an episode this season by far. Most everything else I wasn’t all that argumentative about (e.g. Scootaloo having awful parents, Dash having yet another episode where she acts like a prick, finally getting a generic body swap episode, etc.)
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