Season 9 Discussion Thread [NO SPOILERS, DF airings only]

@kleptomage
 
Agreed wholeheartedly.
 
The school was one of the only things Twilight was ever proactive about, and hell, it was arguably the only job she’s ever had. That was a suitable endgame for her, I feel, and something she could have made a lifetime career out of, possibly even opening more schools across Equestria. But nope, fuck all that. Not good enough, I guess, because Lord knows Twilight hasn’t already received more than enough and utterly dwarfed the lifetime achievements of her friends.
 
And again, Twilight succeeding Celestia was brought up out of nowhere just this season, and it’s just so damn jarring. The notion that Celestia and Luna are retiring because Equestria is now experiencing a period of peace, even though, ya know, more villains have attempted to conquer it in just the last few years than in the millennium that Celestia was ruling alone.
 
And above all, Twilight didn’t want it. Her friends didn’t want it. Heaven forbid she should have just the slightest level of agency as to what she wants to do with her own life.

@kleptomage
 
I do get that, but I guess I’m just thinking about Celestia’s feelings as well in all this. Royal Problem showed that Celestia is basically miserable doing her job. She’s perpetually tired, she’s constantly putting on a fake face. I don’t think it’s fair to expect her to rule forever.
 
Twilight and her friends are, I honestly think, better at this job than Celestia is. I’m not sure what aspects of rule Celestia is definitively better at than Twi is. Celestia has a great eye for talent, and can provide stability to her subjects by being a comforting presense, but the cast have managed to do SO much more for Equestria’s political relationships and it’s defence than Celestia ever has.
 
edit: reposting for the next page.

@gingerninja666
 
Celestia did good in ruling on her lonesome over 1,000 years, keeping the country safe… but it seemed relatively stagnant over that time.
 
But there was a visual in Between Dark and Dawn that I found telling, during that song the duo shared.
 

 
Celestia simply feels… trapped as a ruler. She has to constantly maintain the mask of perfection for her subjects, for her ponies, and it gets tiring having to care for them constantly, even if she does actually care about them, as a benevolent ruler.
 

@Spinny  
Indeed. It just makes me sad to think about, sadder than I am that the series is over. The show and characters deserved a better ending.
 
 
@gingerninja666  
Frankly, I don’t care very much about Celestia’s feelings at this point. It was Twilight and her friends who did all the heavy lifting throughout the series. They fought and defeated threats to Equestria again and again while Celestia and Luna were captured or otherwise useless. Celestia owes her eternal gratitude to Twilight, certainly enough to let her choose her own path. She can wait a mortal generation in her ageless life and take another pupil who may replace her.

@gingerninja666  
I mean, now that there are three other adult alicorns she could have chosen to just go on vacation. Hell, take a few years off. Luna can handle most of the big issues while Twilight and Cadance take turns handling the day court.

@RaineV1  
That too is an option.

@kleptomage
 
That’s the thing though. I feel like if Twilight really REALLY pushed back against Celestia, Celestia wouldn’t force her.

@RaineV1
 
I’m not sure Luna is particularly interested in ruling. And Cadance has her own country to worry about.

@gingerninja666  
Cadance’s country is a single, peaceful city. She can delegate for a few days a week.

Off the topic of “Celestia was a jerk and Twilight deserved better” (she really did), I was thinking about that little bit of dialogue when Dash and AJ first walked in during the epilogue.
 
If Rainbow Dash is now the captain of the Wonderbolts, wouldn’t that mean she needs to spend much more time in Cloudsdale (or wherever the ‘Bolts train)? If that’s the case, wouldn’t it make sense for her to sell her house in Ponyville and move back there? That would mean that when she’s in Ponyville for more than a day, she’d need a place to crash. So it’d make sense that she’d stay at Sweet Apple Acres whenever she’s in town, since not only is she one of Applejack’s 6 closest friends, but also because the Apple family as a whole are always ones for hospitality. That said, it’s probably not a permanent residence; Dash was probably just sleeping over at SAA during the events of the epilogue.
 
Anyways, just a thought that crossed my mind.

Also, Celestia and Luna did say they were available to help whenever Twilight needs it.

@gingerninja666
 

 
Depending on your headcanon, regarding their lifespan after this whole deal, when Celestia says “always,” that might be 100% literal.
 
As in her and Luna will always be around, barring an unnatural death or something.

@gingerninja666  
Twilight was cowed enough by Celestia that she would never think to oppose her. Hell, have some quotes from A Royal Problem in season 7, 4 seasons after Twilight officially became a princess.
 
“And they’re Celestia and Luna so it’s not like you can just confront them.”  
“Actually, that’s exactly what I was going to do.”  
“WHAT? Are you crazy?”
 
“Sorry, it’s just that you said ‘princesses’ and ‘aren’t the best’ in the same sentence and it’s making me nervous.”
 
Her level of hero worship was fucking unhealthy.

@kleptomage
 
She’s shown she’s capable of disobeying Celestia too though when she really needs to.

@gingerninja666  
Refresh my memory.

@kleptomage
 
That was her lesson in the Crystal Empire, I believe.

@kleptomage
 
This is something that I agree with and it bothers me too. I understand Celestia probably wants to leave her job and finally retire, I can sympathize…but she never even really asked Twilight what she wanted, and considering Twilight’s hero worship of Celestia I kind of doubt she’d ever be willing to speak up if she didn’t want the job, out of fear of disappointing her, and Celestia should know that by now. Especially after episodes like “Lesson Zero” and “Horse Play”. If she hates this job so much, yet cares about Twilight, she should at least be willing to sit down and talk to her about it and make sure she actually, genuinely wants it before thrusting it upon her.
 
She never really presents it as a choice either, she’s pretty much just all “Hey, we’re retiring, you get the throne now!”

@Background Pony #F81E  
@kleptomage
 
Kind of makes Celestia come off as manipulative by abusing Twilight’s admiration of her to get what she wanted.

@T.S. Lightner  
Commute time between Ponyville and Cloudsdale seems to be pretty irrelevant all throughout the show unless you’re travelling by hot air balloon.
 
Little Mac seemed awfully excited to see his aunt. Like maybe he hadn’t seen her in a while.
 

Also, I don’t “think” the Wonderbolt home base is in Cloudsdale. Wasn’t it built on top of some plateus that jut up into the clouds?

@cheezedoodle  
That is true, though I tend to take the canonical status of song visuals with a grain of salt.
 
@gingerninja666  
Well, I did say “or wherever the ‘Bolts train”, since I couldn’t remember exactly where it was.

@T.S. Lightner
 
I don’t think it’s relative position to anywhere else was ever really established.

@gingerninja666
 
You call that a lesson in disobeying Celestia? Twilight quite literally believed she “failed” the “test” of saving the Empire because Spike got the “killing blow” on Sombra and had to be reminded that she doesn’t have to follow Celestia’s orders to the letter, if anything it just solidified just how strong of a Judge/Lawful archetype she is.
 
They tend to make for oppressive rulers due to their tendency to push for order at all costs and lack of moral compass.

@Poison Trail  
“Lack of Moral compass” isn’t really something I’d attribute to Twilight though, she thought she failed the test, yes, but was willing to accept that if it meant saving the Empire. Not that it’d be impossible for Twilight to turn into a tyrant under the right conditions, but if that ever did happen I think it’d take quite a while and have to involve some extreme circumstances.

@Background Pony #F81E
 
Twilight would have to be on the path of losing everything to possibly go evil.
 
And I don’t think she’d let herself fall as far into being the same sorts of beings she fought in this season… and if she did go into villainy, I think she could be stopped.
 
She’d either turn into a somewhat jaded anti-hero, or an anti-villain of some sort, under enough pressure, I think.