Unpopular opinion time

@QueenCold
 
I agree, up until the Teenage dragon’s very abrupt heel-turn they seemed like perfectly fine role-models for Spike. Their sudden turn to villains is so random and out of place is makes it seem like anyone in the series could become suddenly “bad”.  
I mean, Are we 100% positive that Pinkie doesn’t smash phoenix eggs in her spare time too?
 
Before that occurred the only conflict in the episode was created by Rarity,Twilight,and Rainbow Dash all becoming oddly very possessive over Spike, fearing he may leave with the dragons. That was pretty out of character for all of them, since we’ve never really seen any of them worry about Spike in particular that much.
 
And then to wrap it up we have the ponies blatant racism towards the dragons, or any other species pretty much. They where all afraid to leave Spike alone with them, yet Twilight has left Spike by himself numerous other times in dangerous places. In the very first episodes she leaves Spike alone in Ponyville when NMM returned, despite knowing nothing about the ponies there.  
Sure was lucky that they weren’t as bigoted at Spike as they where Zecora, for some inexplicable reason.

@ColdhardSilver  
Oh, it wasn’t just a trinket like the Idol of Boreas, sure. But it technically was taken from the dragon’s hoard and there were better ways to handle it than marching an army in and demanding it.
 
@MadVillan  
Again, I think it was because they absolutely had to keep the status quo.
 
Ponies are speciesist towards everyone because they see themselves as superior. And they get that straight from the top. Dragons in particular get the worst, ponies treat them as beasts despite them being clearly sapient and able to understand ponies, PLUS being capable of controlling their urges and being able to understand pony culture.

@Itsthinking  
Glorious Pony Master Race.

@SeraphimDawn  
No. There’s a reason other species hate ponies “for no reason.”

@Itsthinking  
Most definitely, and it’s sad because that’s whats going to cause the eventual downfall of the show. They can’t do another 100 episodes with barley any character development and showing the same character flaws over, and over again.  
They’re trying as hard as possible to keep everything the same, hoping new generations can watch and not miss anything.

@MadVillan  
“I agree, up until the Teenage dragon’s very abrupt heel-turn they seemed like perfectly fine role-models for Spike.”  
They’re dude bros. They have plenty of good points, but as with a lot of group if you cross them things will turn bad. Even the mafia has a strong emphasis on family and heritage. They’re not villains, but they ain’t saints neither.
 
“Before that occurred the only…”  
Twilight and Rarity have already had episode with the declaring Spike as very important and Rainbow hates to lose anything or lose her friends (again shown in episodes like Hurricane Fluttershy and Tanks for the memories) so why would she of all ponies let him go?
 
“And then to wrap it up we have the ponies blatant racism towards the dragons, or any other species pretty much.”  
Though end moral was badly worded, but that wasn’t the point they were trying to get across.  
To put it in other word think of it as questioning of masculinity. There are many different interpretation of being a man and if you’re not man like a certain male group is they may see you as less of one or the opposite. In the context of the dragons, what else would they see as the opposite of them but ponies? That’s what I think they were trying to get across with the being a pony line.

@MadVillan  
Only Pokemon can get away with that stunt.

@MadVillan  
The show’s different now than it was in S2. Considering that numerous writers have openly said they have issues with Dragon Quest, maybe they’d tackle something like it again some day.
 
@ColdhardSilver  
Unfortunately, if you look at it that way, it looks like Spike is going “Fuck being male, all men are brutes, I’m going to be a nice feminine pony and raise this bird to be like that.” Or you could go for the racist implications like poorly advised comic writer Jeremy Whitley did.
 
There’s a reason Larson said the episode “left him out in the cold.” It just did not sit well with many people that watched it, regardless of what you took from it.
 
In short, Dragon Quest was a victim of when the show was going to have 65 episodes. If they did it again, Spike’s journey and inward reflection would probably have more meaning as well as a lasting effect on his character both physically and mentally.

@Itsthinking  
Considering it first aired the day my beloved dog was put down after we adopted her exactly 16 years ago to that exact day…yeah, he’s not the only one. :/

@ColdhardSilver  
It does draw an accidental parallel to that but at the same time this episode wasn’t that complex, the message it largely ended with was that Ponies are culturally superior to dragons. And Spike being a dragon is a negative trait about himself that he has to work to overcome. Then in later episodes it pretty much confirms, all things that aren’t pony are inferior to ponies. The Griffons can’t even cook properly for Pete’s sake.
 
And we can’t forget that it’s the ponies “moral duty” to spread their culture onto the other races, things get uncomfortable there.
 
@SeraphimDawn  
Funny, I was thinking exactly of Pokemon when I wrote that. Their not much better either, Ash seems to completely forget any skill he had as a trainer every new season.

@Itsthinking  
“Unfortunately, if you look at it that way, it looks like Spike is…”  
I think you missed my point.  
Spike’s a pony in the context that he is the opposite of what those teen dragons see as being a dragon which is a pony.  
There are those who say I don’t act particularly “black” by their definition and I don’t wish to follow such a thing so does that mean that I’m going “Fuck being black, all black guys are niggas, I’m going to be a nice white man”?
 
“There’s a reason Larson said the episode “left him out in the cold.” It just did not sit well with many people that watched it, regardless of what you took from it.”  
>regardless of what you took from it  
Well screw everything I’ve been saying then I guess.

@MadVillan  
“It does draw an accidental parallel to that but at the same time this episode wasn’t that complex, the message it largely ended with was that Ponies are culturally superior to dragons.”  
WHOA THERE COWBOY  
>draw an accidental parallel  
>accidental  
I can very well say the same of your “Ponies are culturally superior to dragons” and “And we can’t forget that it’s the ponies “moral duty” to spread their culture onto the other races, things get uncomfortable there.”, but saying so would be rather rude to you don’t you think?

@ColdhardSilver  
Certainly how Jeremy Whitley saw it.
 
Ponies are kind of xenophobic. Ethnocentric, speciesist, imperialist, and xenophobic. There are good individuals that are ponies of course, but Celestia herself is guilty of all of this and ponies follow her example.
 
Note that I fucking hated how Jeremy Whitley destroyed the entire species of dragons and created even more bad implications with his little dragon ghetto, I just think that ponies and dragons both could stop being shitty in their own unique ways and just talk. Both have so much to gain from even just being neutral to each other.

@Itsthinking  
Wait didn’t I direct the xenophobic center post directed at Mad and this one (@ColdhardSilver) to you?

Not sure. I was just commenting that ponies are xenophobic too, and that dragons get the worst of it.

@ColdhardSilver  
Sorry, the word I meant was sloppy. Any parallels connecting dragon to manliness wheren’t really apparent and I didn’t really notice them.  
But I think we can all agree that it was obvious by the end of the episode Spike decided the pony way of life was superior, especially since he tells Pewee phoenix, that he has much to teach it about being a pony.
 
Also the Cutie mark map is exactly that, a map that sends the Main 6 across the world, sometimes to other countries to impose their ideals on friendship and harmonious living.

@Itsthinking  
Kay, but would mind answering what I was saying here (@ColdhardSilver). Not to sound pushy, but I want to wrap my points up before heading to sleep and I’m interested to see what you respond with.

@Itsthinking  
I haven’t read that much of other media like the comics, but I think Iron will got it the worst in the show. Rarity called him a monster, just for trying to make an honest living.  
You don’t see anyone calling Trixie, the FlimFlam bros, or that = sign unicorn a monster, yet their much worse than he ever was.

@ColdhardSilver  
In similar situations involving ponies she’d use words such as “uncouth”. Rarity does have the tendency to be an outspoken speciesist (calling Iron Will a monster throughout PYHD and having no respect for mules), so we’ll say that one’s on her.
 
They already specified they were going on a raid. They didn’t need to detail it further. It would just be exposition. It falls under the typical “I am going to tell my friends something I don’t need to tell them, just in case we’re being watched by an audience” B-rated movie rule of bad story telling. This act of the episode did not need to be any worse. We really don’t know enough about Garble or any of them to know he’d make that joke in the first place. (and it wouldn’t even be funny)  
The reason the chimera threatened AB like that was, well… to be threatening. They’re talking to something they know can understand them and they are trying to scare it. (which is kind of dumb when you’re trying to catch your next meal, but the chimera wasn’t terribly smart)
 
Garble was already secure in his position as the leader, that’s why he didn’t seem worried about it. When Spike, the rookie, outright defied and back-talked him in front of his friends - backed up by ponies no less - Garble would lose his credibility as a leader if he just let them get away with that.
 
Garble never explicitly said Spike failed because he could not stay on the hoard. Losing because of a dirty trick isn’t really losing. Since Spike received instant karma for cheating - and the fact that getting a spine shoved up your cloaca is not something you wanna talk about - Garble didn’t mention it. If anything it showcases a lot of patience.
 
You don’t have to agree with me. After all, this is the unpopular opinion thread. My theory stands due to lack of conflicting evidence.

@MadVillan  
“But I think we can all agree that it was obvious by the end of the episode Spike decided the pony way of life was superior, especially since he tells Pewee phoenix, that he has much to teach it about being a pony.”  
>we can all agree  
>we  
WHOA THERE CO- Nah, I’m not doing that again. :P  
I’m pretty sure I’ve made it quite apparent about what I do and don’t agree with.  
Remember this is a discussion, we have to leave room for other interpretations and the sort.

@ColdhardSilver  
So your saying Spike meant pony/dragon as a substitute for gender roles? I don’t think the comparisons work at all, especially towards the end when he tells Pewee he has a lot to teach him about being a pony. We don’t even know Pewee’s gender, let alone how a phoenix could be masculine or feminine.

@QueenCold  
“In similar situations involving ponies she’d use words such as “uncouth””  
Not to ponies like Trixie for example. And don’t forget that correlation doesn’t imply causation. How do we know that she uses those word based solely on their species; especially since the mule thing is a running joke and the Iron Will thing refereed to the fact that he’s a large tough guy hence for similar reasons she calls other brutes and rapscallions.
 
“We really don’t know enough about Garble or any of them to know he’d make that joke in the first place”  
“Namby pamby pony princess” line using Spike teasing Garble not using a joke? I wouldn’t call it far fetched.
 
“Garble was already secure…”  
Sorry to say, but that didn’t help much. I get what you’re saying, but I don’t see the connection and clues to the episode.
 
“Garble never explicitly said Spike failed because he could not stay on the hoard…”  
Well based on the comedic guitar riff, the act of having his fall end right at Garble’s feet, the similarity to Spike’s previous failures at the dragon games, and scene juxtaposition, I’m think that’s what the writers were implying.
 
“You don’t have to agree with me. After all, this is the unpopular opinion thread.”  
Nor do you onto my own, my friend.

@MadVillan  
Not to mention these teens only ever got to “shine” in a Merriwether Williams episode. She’s not a very good writer for MLP because she’s used to writing stories for other, more mean-spirited worlds, like the Spongebob and Angry Beavers universes. So in the MLP universe, she tends to make characters too angry/harsh.  
Imagine the reputation of Rainbow Dash if The Mysterious Mare Do Well was her only episode.
 
Putting Your Hoof Down was a terrible episode. Everyone was made a prick, just to emphasize how much of a doormat Fluttershy is and to push her over the edge. Iron Will was painted as the bad guy, when he was rightfully collecting his earnings and Fluttershy was at her absolute worst. What this episode really said about her is that at best she is completely unstable and at worst she has no qualms about completely destroying the self-confidence of her best friends.
 
As for Dragon Quest, you could replace the words “pony” and “dragon” with a lot of words and the message would be equally bad, this includes, but is not limited to “girl” and “boy”.
 
Let’s have a look at the transcript and let’s look at part of what the protagonists have to say:
 
Rainbow Dash: One tough stain against one lame dragon. [laughs]  
Rarity: You leave him alone, Rainbow Dash! Spike’s style is unique. He doesn’t have to look like other dragons.  
Twilight Sparkle: Or act like them.  
Rarity: My little Spikey-wikey is perfect the way he is.  
Spike: I don’t act like other dragons?  
Pinkie Pie: Oh, not even close!  
Applejack: But why would you want to, Spike?
 
Let’s replace some words:
 
Rainbow Dash: One tough stain against one lame boy. [laughs]  
Rarity: You leave him alone, Rainbow Dash! Spike’s style is unique. He doesn’t have to look like other boys.  
Twilight Sparkle: Or act like them.  
Rarity: My little Spikey-wikey is perfect the way he is.  
Spike: I don’t act like other boys?  
Pinkie Pie: Oh, not even close!  
Applejack: But why would you want to, Spike?  
–  
Rainbow Dash: One tough stain against one lame black guy. [laughs]  
Rarity: You leave him alone, Rainbow Dash! Spike’s style is unique. He doesn’t have to look like other blacks.  
Twilight Sparkle: Or act like them.  
Rarity: My little Spikey-wikey is perfect the way he is.  
Spike: I don’t act like other blacks?  
Pinkie Pie: Oh, not even close!  
Applejack: But why would you want to, Spike?
 
See how messed up this is?

@ColdhardSilver  
The Mane 6 were actually really awful in Boast Busters too, considering Trixie was a performer doing her job.

@MadVillan  
No I was using gender connotation as an example, the point was the idea of common group mentalities (hence the race based application as I detailed here: @ColdhardSilver)  
To speak in the most general sense:  
Spike wished to find himself through a group he think he has to belong. (What is means to be a “dragon”/What is means to be a “[insert gender]”/What is means to be a “[insert race]”  
Spike then joins with group he was looking for and was taught what they consider to be a dragon and anything less than that you may as well be a pony as far as they are concerned.  
Sure there were other similar groups (other dragons) doing they’re own things, but Spike choose them.  
Sure Spike liked the brotherly love that comes with being in a group, but as with any group they are pieces that don’t mesh with your personal ideals (Spike not wanting to hurt eggs) and as such he has to choose the group or his own beliefs.  
Spike choose the latter and as such in the group’s eyes he is their opposite (i.e. a pony)