Scrabbleman 
[screams in German]
I don’t even like Dead Or Alive series, so this doesn’t really do much to me.
The great GamerGate discussion. (Stuff and things)
ЅℰℒᎯℙℋℐℰℒ 
Pomegranates :P
@Scrabbleman
Matters to some of us.
I mean, if they go after this. What others are going to potentially capitulate to this false trend that is artificially pushed by a small minority of vocal ideologues down the road?
Matters to some of us.
I mean, if they go after this. What others are going to potentially capitulate to this false trend that is artificially pushed by a small minority of vocal ideologues down the road?
Plain Pony 
Not a Plane pony
@Twilestia
Not only is it a big risk, I think it’s morally wrong as well. There are thousands of games, a lot of which are in the same genre, that people who don’t like DoA can play. But DoA fans are dependent on DoA continuing to exist as it does to get more DoA games. Luckily fighting games are so replayable. It would be a tragedy if a series like God of War or the Legend of Zelda went mainstream.
@Lord Seraph
Not every IP is suited to hit it big, and that’s something that game companies need to accept. If a series can’t bring in the money or worldwide recognition doing what it’s doing, then trying to keep hold of the name while also changing itself into something entirely different is a nonsensical move. Yet it happens so often.
Fans also need to accept this. You might like almost everything about a series, but want this one little thing changed to suit yourself better, but that little thing may be a big thing for other fans. I’m not advocating that we never ask to change anything, far from it in fact. We don’t know what fans value about a series unless we ask why, after all. But at times it’s clear that people who advocate for change don’t understand what makes an IP loved in the first place with some of the stupid shit they suggest. And trying to demonise certain tastes does nothing to change that.
At best, a series that’s morally wrong should die, not change. But it’s never as simple as that, despite what some people try to assert. The only thing that’s that simple is that DoA doesn’t get mainstream attention, and while I don’t doubt that the sexualization is a factor, it is such an important part of what DoA is as an IP that it’s something that shouldn’t be changed and accepted. Or maybe, just maybe, it would be better if we as a society became more accepting of sexuality instead.
Not only is it a big risk, I think it’s morally wrong as well. There are thousands of games, a lot of which are in the same genre, that people who don’t like DoA can play. But DoA fans are dependent on DoA continuing to exist as it does to get more DoA games. Luckily fighting games are so replayable. It would be a tragedy if a series like God of War or the Legend of Zelda went mainstream.
@Lord Seraph
Not every IP is suited to hit it big, and that’s something that game companies need to accept. If a series can’t bring in the money or worldwide recognition doing what it’s doing, then trying to keep hold of the name while also changing itself into something entirely different is a nonsensical move. Yet it happens so often.
Fans also need to accept this. You might like almost everything about a series, but want this one little thing changed to suit yourself better, but that little thing may be a big thing for other fans. I’m not advocating that we never ask to change anything, far from it in fact. We don’t know what fans value about a series unless we ask why, after all. But at times it’s clear that people who advocate for change don’t understand what makes an IP loved in the first place with some of the stupid shit they suggest. And trying to demonise certain tastes does nothing to change that.
At best, a series that’s morally wrong should die, not change. But it’s never as simple as that, despite what some people try to assert. The only thing that’s that simple is that DoA doesn’t get mainstream attention, and while I don’t doubt that the sexualization is a factor, it is such an important part of what DoA is as an IP that it’s something that shouldn’t be changed and accepted. Or maybe, just maybe, it would be better if we as a society became more accepting of sexuality instead.
Background Pony #A9CE
Aren’t those two series already kinda mainstream?
Granted, the difference is that the new entries in both God of War and Legend of Zelda changed things around to be more accessible to new audiences, while still keeping the spirit and identity of the previous games and thus retaining the old audience.
What Dead or Alive is doing is completely shedding away the identity and audience it had for its whole lifetime in hopes of getting new ones, which almost never works out well for anyone involved.
@Twilestia
It would be a tragedy if a series like God of War or the Legend of Zelda went mainstream.
Aren’t those two series already kinda mainstream?
Granted, the difference is that the new entries in both God of War and Legend of Zelda changed things around to be more accessible to new audiences, while still keeping the spirit and identity of the previous games and thus retaining the old audience.
What Dead or Alive is doing is completely shedding away the identity and audience it had for its whole lifetime in hopes of getting new ones, which almost never works out well for anyone involved.
Cyborg_pony 
@Background Pony #AABE
Zelda has always changed it up, but There were usually always dungeons and swordplay. They removed the dungeon and added different weapons, but they don’t last and I mean DON’T LAST. However, You could still say “yeah, it’s Zelda”
God or War was a complete overhaul with zero of anything from the original. Completely mechanics and gameplay. If you changed removed the fact it’s Kratos, you wouldn’t know.
Zelda has always changed it up, but There were usually always dungeons and swordplay. They removed the dungeon and added different weapons, but they don’t last and I mean DON’T LAST. However, You could still say “yeah, it’s Zelda”
God or War was a complete overhaul with zero of anything from the original. Completely mechanics and gameplay. If you changed removed the fact it’s Kratos, you wouldn’t know.
Plain Pony
Not a Plane pony
@Background Pony #AABE
Yes, that sentence was in jest.
When I saw the God of War 4 trailer I thought it was a satire. I really really did. I was expecting the game to kill the kid in the first hour and have the old Kratos go do old Kratos things for the rest of the game. I couldn’t believe that they would make this kind of game out of God of War. Needless to say, I was wrong. They did bring the Blades of Chaos back at least. That interview where the dev said they didn’t include them because people would expect Kratos to play like he used to was an absolute joke.
Breath of the Wild is the game that planted me on my hill of changing sequels that I expect to die on one day. Skyward Sword was the game that made me realise that Zelda was more than dungeons and items, and then BotW looked like the complete opposite of SS, but once again missing the point of a Zelda game. And oh boy did BotW turn out even worse than I expected. A Link Between Worlds already lowered my expectations of an open world Zelda game, but BotW somehow made it even worse.
These games are good games. I’m not disputing that. They’re very flawed, much more flawed than most people will admit. One of the biggest flaws with both games is that they’re both poor examples of the IPs they claim they are. But there are plenty of great games that have weak points, and I’m not going to pull the overrated card. But I do wish that more people would share my opinion that a series should stay true to its defining characteristics, and mark down a game that fails to do so the same way one would mark down a game for having a bad story full of plot holes or a really ugly artstyle.
Yes, that sentence was in jest.
When I saw the God of War 4 trailer I thought it was a satire. I really really did. I was expecting the game to kill the kid in the first hour and have the old Kratos go do old Kratos things for the rest of the game. I couldn’t believe that they would make this kind of game out of God of War. Needless to say, I was wrong. They did bring the Blades of Chaos back at least. That interview where the dev said they didn’t include them because people would expect Kratos to play like he used to was an absolute joke.
Breath of the Wild is the game that planted me on my hill of changing sequels that I expect to die on one day. Skyward Sword was the game that made me realise that Zelda was more than dungeons and items, and then BotW looked like the complete opposite of SS, but once again missing the point of a Zelda game. And oh boy did BotW turn out even worse than I expected. A Link Between Worlds already lowered my expectations of an open world Zelda game, but BotW somehow made it even worse.
These games are good games. I’m not disputing that. They’re very flawed, much more flawed than most people will admit. One of the biggest flaws with both games is that they’re both poor examples of the IPs they claim they are. But there are plenty of great games that have weak points, and I’m not going to pull the overrated card. But I do wish that more people would share my opinion that a series should stay true to its defining characteristics, and mark down a game that fails to do so the same way one would mark down a game for having a bad story full of plot holes or a really ugly artstyle.
Deserter
This cykas my blyats
@Plain Pony
But Breath of The Wild is more accurate to the NES and SNES games that any game before it.
If we’re going with the “a series should stay true to its defining characteristics” thing, BoTW is actually how a modern Zelda game should be.
But Breath of The Wild is more accurate to the NES and SNES games that any game before it.
If we’re going with the “a series should stay true to its defining characteristics” thing, BoTW is actually how a modern Zelda game should be.
Plain Pony
Not a Plane pony
@Deserter
As much as I’d love to continue this discussion, it’s wildly off topic and this isn’t the first time I’ve done this, so I should probably stop. As much as I love to rag on games journalists that disagree with me, it’s probably not relevant to this thread unless it’s about something that all journalists are working together to push out.
As much as I’d love to continue this discussion, it’s wildly off topic and this isn’t the first time I’ve done this, so I should probably stop. As much as I love to rag on games journalists that disagree with me, it’s probably not relevant to this thread unless it’s about something that all journalists are working together to push out.
Cyborg_pony
@Deserter @Plain Pony
Well, there’s a Zelda thread. So let’s go there?
Anyways, ending note: DoA and Battlefeild changed for the wrong reasons, while Zelda did it in a far better manner. Not perfect, but didn’t spit on consumers who brought the prior games.
Well, there’s a Zelda thread. So let’s go there?
Anyways, ending note: DoA and Battlefeild changed for the wrong reasons, while Zelda did it in a far better manner. Not perfect, but didn’t spit on consumers who brought the prior games.
Turkeynomster
DOA 6 basically tried to become a legit fighting game by shifting the focus from soft core porn into something more “serious”. The people who enjoyed the series mainly for the titillation of course feel it as a betrayal and how moral puritans were ruining the series, which could be partially true.
All they would have had to say that they’re experimenting with DOA 6 with a different tone than before. If people liked it less than the previous direction and it showed on sales, they would revert back to what it was before. That way it would signal how the change wouldn’t necessarily be permanent for the entire future game series. Basically, they should have made DOA 6 a spin off and see if it was better received than the main series.
Overall, the new direction seems like a bad idea with unnecessary risks involved. There’s a chance that it will just alienate the already existing fan base by changing the primary appeal. I don’t see it as a good idea to make your brand more generic to appeal to the “general audience” when those same audiences aren’t interested in the fighting genre to begin with.
All they would have had to say that they’re experimenting with DOA 6 with a different tone than before. If people liked it less than the previous direction and it showed on sales, they would revert back to what it was before. That way it would signal how the change wouldn’t necessarily be permanent for the entire future game series. Basically, they should have made DOA 6 a spin off and see if it was better received than the main series.
Overall, the new direction seems like a bad idea with unnecessary risks involved. There’s a chance that it will just alienate the already existing fan base by changing the primary appeal. I don’t see it as a good idea to make your brand more generic to appeal to the “general audience” when those same audiences aren’t interested in the fighting genre to begin with.
Lord WyrmSpawN 
Lingering Wyvern
What out of touch executive got this idea you can just shift audience on the fly and not lose any face or money?
Cyborg_pony
@PonyPon
The same one that said “Let’s not sell the last DoA extreme where it sells the most.” That one.
Speaking of out of touch. Ole’ MovieBob is just… Just a treat after getting his job at Escapist
Anyone remember the site deepfreeze? Yeah, they should probably be cataloging Bob, it might take a few months.
The same one that said “Let’s not sell the last DoA extreme where it sells the most.” That one.
Speaking of out of touch. Ole’ MovieBob is just… Just a treat after getting his job at Escapist
Anyone remember the site deepfreeze? Yeah, they should probably be cataloging Bob, it might take a few months.
Turkeynomster
@Cyborg_pony
That didn’t take long. Would have expected the man to last at least two months before going all ham on “white supremacist nazi Trump right wing bigot trash should die” diatribe.
That didn’t take long. Would have expected the man to last at least two months before going all ham on “white supremacist nazi Trump right wing bigot trash should die” diatribe.
Cyborg_pony
@Turkeynomster
He’s unhinged since his first firing. With getting his job back at that rag, he pretty much thinks himself immune. Watch thread about bob being a complete PoS be locked and anyone participating perma-banned.
This is the guy that railed on people, calling them sexists and rapist while knowing about Devin Feraci for several years and said NOTHING! He activley tried to cover it up, because he was on his side! Keep screaming how everyone else is the bad guy, Bob. Maybe it will keep your skeletons in the closet unlike all the rest.
This is the type of person the Escapist is hiring while banning people in disagreement. Not only that, but stroking Leigh Alaxander’s ego as well.
He’s unhinged since his first firing. With getting his job back at that rag, he pretty much thinks himself immune. Watch thread about bob being a complete PoS be locked and anyone participating perma-banned.
This is the guy that railed on people, calling them sexists and rapist while knowing about Devin Feraci for several years and said NOTHING! He activley tried to cover it up, because he was on his side! Keep screaming how everyone else is the bad guy, Bob. Maybe it will keep your skeletons in the closet unlike all the rest.
This is the type of person the Escapist is hiring while banning people in disagreement. Not only that, but stroking Leigh Alaxander’s ego as well.
Exhumed Legume 
Weirdo
The Escapist: “We’re leaving politics at the door.”
Also The Escapist: Let’s hire Bob “Bring Back Eugenics” Chipman
Also The Escapist: Let’s hire Bob “Bring Back Eugenics” Chipman
Cyborg_pony
@Exhumed Legume
It’s almost like that’s complete bullshit, especially with everything they’ve been doing.
Escapist: Leave YOUR politics and adopt our or get the fuck out!
It’s almost like that’s complete bullshit, especially with everything they’ve been doing.
Escapist: Leave YOUR politics and adopt our or get the fuck out!
Scrabbleman
[screams in German]
@Cyborg_pony
It sucks to know that Zero Punctuation’s Yatzhee is stuck with them. He’s their biggest money maker and they will never let him go.
It sucks to know that Zero Punctuation’s Yatzhee is stuck with them. He’s their biggest money maker and they will never let him go.
Cyborg_pony
@Scrabbleman
He has to be under a contract. There’s no other way since sites like that are a dying platform. He’d be better off on just uploading to YT and drop escapist.
I’d be funny if Bob was the last straw with him acting like he’s a superior to Yatzhee and he just gives them the finger saying “Good like with your new ‘star’ assholes.” but I think it’s like a TGWTG and someone else owns the intellectual property and not the person behind it.
That’s really the only reason I can see he’s stuck to that website.
He has to be under a contract. There’s no other way since sites like that are a dying platform. He’d be better off on just uploading to YT and drop escapist.
I’d be funny if Bob was the last straw with him acting like he’s a superior to Yatzhee and he just gives them the finger saying “Good like with your new ‘star’ assholes.” but I think it’s like a TGWTG and someone else owns the intellectual property and not the person behind it.
That’s really the only reason I can see he’s stuck to that website.
Plain Pony
Not a Plane pony
@Cyborg_pony
I probably will at some point, but right now is not a good time for me to be getting into a big debate. I’ve been having a tough time the past few weeks, and I don’t want that to leak into my arguing. I’m going to need to be on the top of my game to take on BotW without being a big asshole about it.
@Exhumed Legume
If he can remain neutral on the politics while under The Escapist’s banner I’ll eat my hat, but how new management handles him will be an important factor for The Escapist going forward. It seems like an impossible task, but if Bob can be kept in line then it’ll be a massive gain for The Escapist’s credibility.
I probably will at some point, but right now is not a good time for me to be getting into a big debate. I’ve been having a tough time the past few weeks, and I don’t want that to leak into my arguing. I’m going to need to be on the top of my game to take on BotW without being a big asshole about it.
@Exhumed Legume
If he can remain neutral on the politics while under The Escapist’s banner I’ll eat my hat, but how new management handles him will be an important factor for The Escapist going forward. It seems like an impossible task, but if Bob can be kept in line then it’ll be a massive gain for The Escapist’s credibility.
Ebalosus 
Build commie blocks!
@Plain Pony
The problem is not only that Bob cant be restrained, the original complainers on twitter about “lol, no politics” will be egging him and everyone else (bar Yahtzee and Shamus (should he work for them again)) on. I’ve already tested the waters there, and until everyone with a *ahem* “dangerous opinion” has been banned, the politics of the place will remain divisive and biased toward Socjus. Hell, if you even mention what Bob says on twitter on the forums, you’ll be banned.
Also, we’ll have to agree to disagree about Bob giving the Escapist more credibility. The reason is that it was the Escapist that gave Bob credibility to begin with due to the other movers-and-shakers-present, and since Jim Sterling and Extra Credits (who ironically found their fame thanks to Moviebob) aren’t returning, it’ll be like those low-budget sequels to popular movies where they bring back one famous person out of the original ensemble and everyone else is new.
The problem is not only that Bob cant be restrained, the original complainers on twitter about “lol, no politics” will be egging him and everyone else (bar Yahtzee and Shamus (should he work for them again)) on. I’ve already tested the waters there, and until everyone with a *ahem* “dangerous opinion” has been banned, the politics of the place will remain divisive and biased toward Socjus. Hell, if you even mention what Bob says on twitter on the forums, you’ll be banned.
Also, we’ll have to agree to disagree about Bob giving the Escapist more credibility. The reason is that it was the Escapist that gave Bob credibility to begin with due to the other movers-and-shakers-present, and since Jim Sterling and Extra Credits (who ironically found their fame thanks to Moviebob) aren’t returning, it’ll be like those low-budget sequels to popular movies where they bring back one famous person out of the original ensemble and everyone else is new.
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