Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Dustcan
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@Derpy Whooves
I feel like his “child exploitation” argument is a reference to Pizzagate. Which is hilarious. Because obviously false conspiracy theory and all.
 
There’s a lot to unpack from his last post that I unfortunately can’t muster the appropriate level of smarminess for right now, but this part in particular stands out.
 
Because buddy, if you’re trying to give Trump brownie points on the subject of “child exploitation”, then I got some bad news for you about Family Separation and reports of forced labor and sexual abuse in the border detention facilities, and the current kerfuffle about Trump being BFFs with a pedophilic sex trafficker.
Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
The chief of ICE was mad at LA’s mayor for telling immigrants that they don’t have to open their doors to ICE agents if said agents don’t have a signed warrant.
 
So effectively, the ICE chief is angry that the mayor told these people the truth, and that now he cannot simply barge into homes like the bloody Gestapo.
Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
 
Teddy Roosevelt. In an editorial after people called him disloyal for criticizing then President Woodrow Wilson in 1918
MethidMan
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@Zincy  
Woodrow Wilson really fucked shit up. If only Teddy Roosevelt sought out more terms instead of allowing Taft to become president and later cause a rift that split the vote that helped Wilson become president later on, then the US would’ve been a better country today. Hell, we would’ve had a national healthcare system which was one of the things Teddy would’ve implemented had he been president longer…
 
This video explains it nicely.
Chilly Pepper
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Tea Drinker
@Zincy  
@MethidMan
 
Literally one of the reasons I have a beard is a political statement against the nationalism that was seen during World War I, when those who were arrested for being accused of being disloyal had to engage in the most literal form of flag worship: being forced to kneel and kiss the edge of it, not to mention forbidden from religious practices in prison and being essentially tortured on a number of occasions.
 
Believe me, if people don’t think I can’t make a comparison between this moment in time in this particular country to more than just Germany in the 1920s and 1930s are sorely underestimating me; I can go foreign or domestic, take your pick.
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@Zincy  
Hell, I’d argue that criticizing your country when it goes wrong is the height of actual patriotism – if you truly love something then it follows that you would want it to be the best it can be. You’re not expected to stand by with a smile on your face as one of your loved ones ruins their life – I don’t see it as being that different when talking about a country you love.
 
@Chilly Pepper  
those who were arrested for being accused of being disloyal had to engage in the most literal form of flag worship: being forced to kneel and kiss the edge of it
 
You know, for people that praise themselves as being so faithfully Christian the American right has a long history of literal idolatry.
Violet Rose in The Rain
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The New York Times has publicly acknowledged that it sends some of its stories to the US government for approval from “national security officials” before publication.
This confirms what veteran New York Times correspondents like James Risen have said: The American newspaper of record regularly collaborates with the US government, suppressing reporting that top officials don’t want made public.
On June 15, the Times reported that the US government is escalating its cyber attacks on Russia’s power grid. According to the article, “the Trump administration is using new authorities to deploy cybertools more aggressively,” as part of a larger “digital Cold War between Washington and Moscow.”
In response to the report, Donald Trump attacked the Times on Twitter, calling the article “a virtual act of Treason.”
The New York Times PR office replied to Trump from its official Twitter account, defending the story and noting that it had, in fact, been cleared with the US government before being printed.
“Accusing the press of treason is dangerous,” the Times communications team said. “We described the article to the government before publication.”
“As our story notes, President Trump’s own national security officials said there were no concerns,” the Times added.
Natry
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Constant Lurker
Libel isn’t covered under the First Amendment, but Trump’s not likely to be charged. Joking aside, censorship for national security reasons has been done before, so the courts would probably allow it.
Vivace
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“ShimSham my GlimGlams”
If the NYT initiated the arrangement, I doubt it’s a violation. If the gov’t coerced it, then I think it is.
Violet Rose in The Rain
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Surveys of the midterm congressional elections in 2018 showed that the majority of Asian votes still went to the Democrats. The new conservative Asian voters are still some way from dominating the Asian vote. But if Chinese Trump supporters are an indicator, conservatism is still rising.
David Wang, the founder of CAFT, said the number of members in the network dropped to 5,000 or so after the presidential election when people shifted their focus to other matters. But now it has risen close to 8,000, and his goal is to have 20,000 people in the network for the 2020 election. The group has growing chapters in cities such as Atlanta and Phoenix and continues to expand.
In the spring, I was invited to a Chinese Trump supporters’ party. It was organized by a woman named Lucy Tan, a mother with two master’s degrees and three school-aged children, at a karaoke bar in the heavily ChinA few dozen Chinese people showed up. Some had participated in pro-Trump activities in 2016, but quite a few were newcomers who said that their conservative stance made them lonely in a progressive city, until they found this group on WeChat.
 
“I had never loved any politicians. But this old man, I love him to death,” exclaimed Jason Gu, who said he worked in the real estate industry. Gu then lamented about his perception of America’s deterioration since he came to this country in 1991 when he was 37 — his sense that there is a swelling welfare system that encourages laziness and punishes hard-working people.
He picked up a peanut from a plate. “Think about this, when we were kids in China, we could only afford to serve peanuts during the Lunar New Year. Why were we so poor?” asked Gu rhetorically. “I came to the U.S. because I saw the flaws of socialism. But now America is going on the old road of China.”
The very thought of socialism created its own toxic atmosphere. Almost everyone came up with a horror story about how it ruined lives in their home country, and they pledged never to let the U.S. become another Venezuela.
Ebalosus
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@Violet Rose in The Rain
 
Sounds like you’ve reached the New Zealand levels of the media-government dick-sucking complex. Wonder how long it’ll be before you reach the Australian level of arresting journalists and raiding their premises to ‘protect’ “national security.”
 
I really do wonder what happened to the mainstream media here in the west, given how much it sucks at doing its job. I’ve been exposed to this quite a bit recently here, whether it’s the media blindly parroting their American counterparts of playing directly into Trump’s hands, or how the gun buyback is a “resounding success with only a tiny amount of pushback.” I was actually interviewed for the latter by a journalist for a regional newspaper here, who *shock horror* wanted to get a balanced take on the subject from multiple sides
 
full
 
(He even said that he felt that there was a lot of anti-gun bias in the mainstream media)
 
It reminded me of something Dan Carlin and Danielle Bolelli discussed here  
Nowadays, I mean the media is in such disarray that the people who you used to rely on to provide at least some window, even if it was a flawed window, into reality are so disorganized and disoriented; their reputations are in tatters, that that leaves nothing to a conversation but name-calling and whatnot. I mean what facts would you argue with? You have your facts and I have my facts, and they never come you know they never they never cross over.
…there used to be a line that “in a democracy or a republic an informed citizenry is what’s required.” Could you call our citizenry informed and if you said no, is it their fault? I don’t know.
(Emphasis mine)
 
I mean, how are we supposed to try and solve major issues affecting us all, like climate change, or disinformation campaigns, or the rise of divisionism in our societies where the only sources of information we can ‘trust’ are the sources that only pander to our specific bias/beliefs/preconceptions/what-have-you and ignore everything and anything that challenge them?
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@Ebalosus  
Cross referencing and listening to multiple people and their opinions as opposed to just sticking with one person.
Commune
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@Ebalosus  
Why is it that every YouTube pundit interested in politics literally have the same voice
 
Also Australia arrests journalists ? Guess they really are part of Asia, welcome brothers
Ebalosus
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@Background Pony #DAE2
 
That’s the correct answer…but frustratingly too many people are too dismissive of opinions based solely upon political labels. For perspective I get my info from people across the spectrum: libertarians, socialists, maoists, communists, social democrats, conventional liberals, centrists, and some old-school small-govt conservatives.
 
@Violet Rose in The Rain
 
The media, obviously. Like with compulsory education, I feel that the media has a lot to answer for when it comes to today’s sociopolitical environment. Not that I’m against a free press (for better or for worse) mind you, just that I feel that they can definitely be doing a better job.
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@Dustcan  
Who knows, this is pretty typical argument from him. Throw out a baseless claim with no source or grounding, expect it to be taken at face value as being true, and finally getting angry at anyone who disagrees for being a big dummy leftist who “drank the koolaid” for not just believing him. Count the times he brushes off your sources for your arguments as biased while providing a video of a “skeptic” YouTuber reading news headlines and getting unreasonably upset for his own on the rare occasion he can be arsed.
Commune
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@Lord Goku  
I’m joking about how western Journalists often talk about North Korea’s cruelty towards their civilians while ignoring the American government’s own cruelty towards their own civilians(and civilians of other countries)
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@Lord Goku
I’m joking about how western Journalists often talk about North Korea’s cruelty towards their civilians while ignoring the American government’s own cruelty towards their own civilians(and civilians of other countries)
 
You picked the wrong thread on the wrong site for that joke. When your ban expires please do not do that again.
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