Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
@Shirani
 
You’d know that’s utter bullshit if you’ve actually worked with unions, and been involved in the process rather than just getting secondhand information.
 
I’ve been working with unions for 10 years or so. I’ve seen the arbitration process, strikes, marches, negotiations, and poltical involvement meetings. I’ve done research with them, and about them.
 
They don’t really wield shit power compared to your darling corporations that can hold our government for ransom at a whim.
 
Don’t even try and compare the power the unions wield to the power that corporations and the Uber rich wield.
RadioDemon
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@Zincy  
Tell that to the various people under unions that have their money siphoned off their paychecks to fund politics they don’t agree with! Its one of the reasons I am not a part of a union. Forced dues plus the fact they use MY money for things I disagree with. They wield an inordinate amount of power over workers! ESPECIALLY those who don’t want to be in unions in the first place!
Cyborg_pony
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@Shirani  
And it’s really only to them, there’s a difference.
 
Most so they can keep their things, while everyone else has to give up theirs. Usually by gun point.
 
You share everything or else you are unpersoned.
 
That was actually brought up in the video.  
Socialism doesn’t protect it’s own in-group, because it doesn’t safeguard from corruption which is then just blamed on capitalism.
 
He really breaks down why it always fails.
Zincy
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In Vino Veritas
@Shirani
 
You have a warped sense of perspective if you think that compares to literally controlling large sections of the legislative process through lobbies, payouts, and getting their shareholders/owners elected into high office.
 
 
“This employee lost some cash on his check so that the office could put up some Clinton fliers”
 
Vs
 
“This corporation got the head of the armed forces committee to order thousands more tanks the army didn’t want because he’s the primary shareholder of the company”.
 
Little bit of a power gap.
Commune
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@Cyborg_pony  
The description is bad enough
 
So let’s lay out the problems with capitalism, shall we  
  1. The falling rate of profit makes it inherently unstable and bound to fail  
    full  
    Simple enough  
  2. The offset by increasing wealth is this  
    Furthermore: When does a society find itself in a condition of advancing wealth? When the capitals and the revenues of a country are growing. But this is only possible:
     
    (a) As the result of the accumulation of much labour, capital being accumulated labour; as the result, therefore, of the fact that more and more of his products are being taken away from the worker, that to an increasing extent his own labour confronts him as another man’s property and that the means of his existence and his activity are increasingly concentrated in the hands of the capitalist.
     
    (b) The accumulation of capital increases the division of labour, and the division of labour increases the number of workers. Conversely, the number of workers increases the division of labour, just as the division of labour increases the accumulation of capital. With this division of labour on the one hand and the accumulation of capital on the other, the worker becomes ever more exclusively dependent on labour, and on a particular, very one-sided, machine-like labour at that. Just as he is thus depressed spiritually and physically to the condition of a machine and from being a man becomes an abstract activity and a belly, so he also becomes ever more dependent on every fluctuation in market price, on the application of capital, and on the whim of the rich. Equally, the increase in the class of people wholly dependent on work intensifies competition among the workers, thus lowering their price. In the factory system this situation of the worker reaches its climax.
     
    (c) In an increasingly prosperous society only the richest of the rich can continue to live on money interest. Everyone else has to carry on a business with his capital, or venture it in trade. As a result, the competition between the capitalists becomes more intense. The concentration of capital increases, the big capitalists ruin the small, and a section of the erstwhile capitalists sinks into the working class, which as a result of this supply again suffers to some extent a depression of wages and passes into a still greater dependence on the few big capitalists. The number of capitalists having been diminished, their competition with respect to the workers scarcely exists any longer; and the number of workers having been increased, their competition among themselves has become all the more intense, unnatural, and violent. Consequently, a section of the working class falls into beggary or starvation just as necessarily as a section of the middle capitalists falls into the working class.
     
    Hence even in the condition of society most favorable to the worker, the inevitable result for the worker is overwork and premature death, decline to a mere machine, a bond servant of capital, which piles up dangerously over and against him, more competition, and starvation or beggary for a section of the workers.- The philosophic and economic manuscripts of 1844  
    Not to mention the spectacle, that in late capitalism our lives are dominated by images where content is meaningless to the form  
  3. The inherent state of capitalism is stagnation and attempts to lift us out of that stagnation just makes things worse
     
    So I have economic texts, videos and graphs behind my back  
    And all you have is a video by some guy with “Otaku” in his name  
    Your move
Lord Hypno
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@Cyborg_pony  
Of course this pundit is going to pick out the example that’s easiest for him to make fun of.
 
Now answer what I was asking you, how is Columbia socialist? I already gave my answer on why it’s not.
Yoga is boring

@Shirani  
Do modern unions really do anything anymore? I know they did a lot for workers in the past but from what I gleamed from the one my parents used to be a part of, the union and their reps have basically become a cabal of grand standing and doing little of substance, even in states that support union activities (my family and I are New Yorkers). They seem today to be fundraising arms of the DNC now more than anything. I know a lot of blue collar unions recieved plenty of flack last year because they went for Hillary even when a good chunk of their members either didn’t support her went for Trump.
RadioDemon
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@Yoga is boring  
Don’t get me wrong Unions were at one time great. BUT they, like everything under the sun, became corrupt. Forced dues and mandatory membership in some states is what REALLY sets me off. Case in point I have heard of workers getting their wages garnished with forced dues BY those same unions even though they weren’t even part of it or didn’t want to be in it. IT. IS. INFURIATING!
Cyborg_pony
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@Hypnosryan  
Actually looking back… You didn’t. You only just said it was capitalism, because one reason. Which is usually what you always do.
 
The way you do say it, is like saying the Knights Templar weren’t Christians.
Cyborg_pony
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@SonGokuMonkey
Columbia is very much capitalist and has a right leaning government.
@Ereiam
But they want to put all the power into the private sector which is still a form of power, and more dangerous than the government having total centralized power.
And fascists still don’t go against everything ancaps believe in since Mussolini still implemented liberal market principles and had a classical liberal as his economic adviser, fascism is still very much pro-capitalist despite a lot of modern conservatives claiming it was a form of socialism.
@Turkeynomster
Communism isn’t a planned economy, there is no wage labor under communism. The Soviet Union which most people think of when they hear about Communism was state capitalism trying to transition to communism, Lenin himself admitted this.
Now the only argument it has left is ankle biting moral indignation and there is nothing impressive about a sanctimonious lecture of morality from a place of supposed nihilism.
… What is this gibberish?
 
I don’t think it’s straw manning, when you’ve said it. You like to use Capitalism some sort of villainy.  
And just the video stated, I don’t think it comes from a place of helping the poor, but hating the rich.
Cyborg_pony
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@Commune  
Usually anything that is bad tends not to be socialist it seems.
 
I’m sure no socialist country ever had death squads. :b
 
Hey Stalin. Hey Lenin, Hey Moa. Hey Maduro. What are you guys up too?
 
Oh, but I guess it just hasn’t been tried yet.
Commune
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@Cyborg_pony  
Coca Cola  
A capitalist company  
From  
The United States  
Colombia allows them to freely kill their workers  
What the fuck do you think Colombia is ?  
Is everything not from the west Socialist to you ?
Cyborg_pony
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@Commune  
Coca-Cola companies can also be privately owned, and independent from the main entity. (see Burger King)
 
I’ve love to stay and chat, but I got get some stuff done.
 
Just telling you since, so you don’t think I’m ignoring you. Although I’m sure you’re breathing a sigh of relief. :v
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