One of my complaints about season 6 is that Starlight, after episodes such as The Crystalling, No second prances and A hearth’s warming tail, where she said she wants to redeem herself, she did the complete opposite thing in Every little thing she does. And it’s not like she was crazy like Twilight in Lesson Zero. She was doing it like she didn’t even care, at least that was my impression.
For me, personally, It’s even worse when the ending was pretty quick. The apologies were very quick. And Twilight’s friends accepted these apologies so well that they didn’t even mention it after that episode, as if they shouldn’t cuestion the decisions of Starlight. In fact, nopony has ever talked about that. It kinda reminds me of Man of Steel, where Superman kills some innocent people and destroys Metropolis.
I know it sounds very nitpicking for many (I’m going to be in the minority here), but, if you want to create a character who wants to redeem herself, why wouldn’t you do something similar to Diamond Tiara in Crusaders of the lost mark for example? At least they made a reason why she was mean to the Cutie Mark Crusaders in the five seasons, and you even feel sorry for her. And it worked because of the dialogue, the story, the music, the presentation of her mother and her final redemption. Or something like Gilda from that episode in season 5.
I’m aware that many people really like Starlight, and that’s completely understandable (episodes like A hearth’s warming tale has good intentions). And I accepted that the season 7 (and that upcoming movie) will be even more focused on her than season 6. I just think this episode doesn’t hold up (and I confess I didn’t enjoy watching it).
So what do you think about Starlight in Every little thing she does? Do you think it’s a great episode? Do you think the episode is not necessary after all the previous build-up? Or do you have a different and interesting idea?
@Evowizard25
@Supes
^ All of these. ^
Yeah I probably shouldn’t have brought Sunset up in the first place, call it a sort of preemptive argument because Starlight is so often considered a watered down version of Sunset, whereas I believe that Sunset is Starlight without all the good stuff.
Geez. I don’t have the energy for long text conversations. I’m using a tablet here. I’m more of a trixie guy anyway. I like sunset but I’d gladly push her in front of a bus if it meant Starlight would get so much as a bruise. Slight hyperbole.
Let’s agree that Superman is best DC hero and move on so others can talk. I feel like We’re hogging the comment section. ;)
Edited
“just a likeable character that’s free to develop in almost any direction”
So pretty much a blank slate and not interesting until she “develops”, which she almost hasn’t done for three movies now so the hope she suddenly will is kinda fading. Sunset’s pretty much Gordon Freeman, you like how he looks on the game cover, and you know he’s an MIT graduate, but neither thing ever comes up or is relevant beyond the first game’s introductury sequence. And beyond that, pretty much no characterization. Sunset may be likeable, but she’s ridiculously bland and uninteresting - to me, at least. I much prefer a character with a lot of context and a more complex personality, which Starlight is. Starlight’s entire past shapes her character and remains relevant, while Sunset’s is pretty much forgotten by now. The single, barely noticeable way Sunset’s past comes up is her enthusiasm for magic which probably stems from her being from Equestria. That’s all she has for characterization. This may sound a bit radical, but I think even Flash, after the “banner day” short and the last movie, has more personality than Sunset. And hey, being stuck in the past is called “life”, you can’t just choose to forget your entire life and come out a completely different person. Everything in your past will one way or another influence you as long as you live. But it doesn’t seem the case for Sunset.
And I dunno if I’d agree about the comeuppance. There’s no reason to believe there was anything beyond more of the same. She doesn’t seem exceedingly troubled or affected by it and nobody ever mentions anything. But this doesn’t really matter, I’m just annoyed when people bring up this picture of Sunset as some great hero who’s forged in the fires of great adversity she’s had to overcome. Which obviously isn’t the picture you have of her so there’s nothing really to argue about.
Sunsets not deep and she doesn’t have a dark tormented past. She’s not saddled with a hokey backstory. She’s just a likeable character that’s free to develop in almost any direction. She’s not complicated but she’s fun and baggage free. Sunset was always about looking to the future, first by trying to claim a destiny that she believed was owed to her and then trying to find a new place in the world. Starlight is a character who always seems stuck in the past because her entire character was built around her past. And it wasn’t even a very good one. That’s my view, anyway.
Also, I believe sunsets comeuppance was proportionate to the things she did while in control of her own mental faculties and at least she actually got some comeuppance. If you can believe that there was a lot more to starlight’s blatant ignorant calousness then was shown on screen, then it’s fair to say that their was a lot more to sunsets outcast situation amongst the students then was shown.
Edited
In my opinion Lesson Zero and ELTSD do a nice job of showing how the show has evolved. LZ was pretty much a wacky comedy based on a wildly exaggerated character trait (to be fair, all of the Mane 6 are pretty wild exaggerations at their base, and that helps reel new viewers in I’d assume) wrapped up neatly with a nicely delivered moral for the kids. ELTSD felt like a more mature version of LZ which kept the comedy but added some weight to it all, was part of a character’s gradual change, and had a vastly more interesting reason for the main mind controller to do what she did. I do love how LZ was directed, though, especially when the sun finally goes down…
@Mr grump
She did start stalking Twilight after all the major world crises, so it’s not like she personally witnessed her saving the world at any point. She made it rather obvious she was unaware, and I’m perfectly fine with accepting whatever theory explains why she failed to get all the information about Twilight and friends’ roles, because that, canonically, is much more plausible than her knowing and knowingly preventing all those world-saving events from occuring.
@Mr grump
I dunno if I agree that Sunset had enough negative consequences shown in the movies. We only have the initial scene where people just kinda scowl at her, and then everyone pretty much forgets she’s even there (and when they’re angry at her again it’s because of the sirens). I’m not saying she deserved much more severe consequences or hatred (especially if she was sincerely trying to be good), but I never thought that anything she went through after her reformation was all that arduous, especially when people pretend she’s some super-deep character with a tormented past now becausse her schoolmates frowned at her for a few months.
Edited
I’m going to be honest in saying I don’t care much for Lesson Zero in contrast. It felt… too much. I didn’t sympathize with Twilight in that episode, especially when she went as far as she did and was not called out on her actions, nor did she have to apologize. Especially since it all happened in the space of one afternoon. If you want this plotline to be done right, Every Little Thing She Does and It’s About Time did it much better. Not to say Lesson Zero doesn’t have some good highlights, but it isn’t one of my faves, that’s for sure.
Also, as much as I’m indifferent to Man of Steel, that was never intentional and, if I’m being honest, cities are always bloody well destroyed in superhero/action movies. It’s just that Man of Steel decided to show some of the destruction from the civilian point of view and such.
She did a ton of other messed up stuff, not just the time thing. And c’mon, how do you stalk a princess for months, learn about the origin of her cutie mark and not hear all the times she played a central roll in saving the world. She was either so caught up in her own wangst she didn’t once stop to think about all the lives she’d be ruining or she’s really crappy stalker.
Sunsets hardly my favourite character, though I do like her. I was scratching my head at how quickly her turn around was and how quick the mane 5 was to embrace her. granted, they did promise twilight they would look out for her and they couldn’t very well leave her emotionally shattered in a smoking crater.
I guess the catharsis of seeing her brought so low by her own hubris and dealing with negative consequences of her actions (the justified hatred of the other students, among other things) made it easier to move on and learn to like her.
Granted, redemption fatigue was starting to rear it’s head with sunset and it only got worse with the kelpie, sombra and radient hope , discord in season 4 and came to a boil with starlight. Chrysalis rejecting it was such a relief and a breath of fresh air.
That is exactly what I think of Sunset as well. Her old nasty personality is completely erased, and indeed her little blowup in FG was probably the only time she was interesting for me, even if it didn’t give me hope for her character because it was obvious they weren’t gonna retroactively give her flaws or, you know, personality, but it was a glimpse of what could’ve (and should’ve) been.
And people often forget, Starlight wasn’t aware of the consequences of her messing with time. She thought she was only ruining a single set of friendships.
@angrybrony
Uh, I’m sorry but I don’t understand. What do you mean?
Edited
Spike and Twilight the remane 5 though are they?
It kinda came off that way, but I do like your theory.
Yet, she still was nasty to others, insulted others, tried turn the Mane 5 against each other, tried to frame Twilight, only dated Flash to become popular, among other things, so she was no saint BEFORE the crown corrupted her. That kinda personality doesn’t just go away instantly.
Then suddenly in “Rainbow Rocks” she spent the whole movie being a brooding woobie and totally different character. Only time we see a hint of the original Sunset, was when she got mad at Glasses Twilight in the third movie. I think I’d actually like Sunset better if she retained a few flaws, or would accidentally lose her temper more, and regret it.
Arguably though that the things Glimmer did was worse, (she did show a li’l remorse after seeing the wasteland timeline) so I’m not saying she’s a saint either.
That fails to make Sunset interesting for me, or make Starlight not interesting. Heck, I liked how dismissive Starlight was of Fluttershy in “every little thing she does” because it showcased her character. And she has very good chemistry with Spike and Twilight, which IMO is already more interesting than anything Sunset’s ever done.
Yepyep. Discord’s reformation I liked a lot back in the day, especially because that one scene when he looks at the ice skates abandoned on the ice always manages to tug on my heartstrings. Though he’s always teetering on the edge for me because I mostly don’t care about his episodes since and I really don’t like how nothing changed for him after the season 4 finale. They could at least bring it up every now and again and say “no offense” or something :D
The other “reformation” I enjoy a lot is Gilda’s, because it was also somewhat beliveable and the episode is amazing overall. But Glim-glam’s is the best reformation story in the show IMO, and best of all it may not be complete yet.
I don’t believe sunset was brainwashed into being good. If anything, the brainwashing was removed by the rainbows after the crown reacted badly to her inherent jealosy and selfishness and corrupted her.
She made a point of claiming She wasn’t a monster but got a glimpse of an exaggerated manifestation of her own darkside and it scared her straight. She couldn’t even bring herself to hurt a dog before the crown changed her.
and yet sunset has better chemistry with the remane 5 unlike starlight glimmer who hasn’t some much as as shared an on screen conversion, in fact the only real time we’ve seen them interact is “Every little thing she does” were she mind fucked them into being her servants which isn’t some much a step backwards but sprinting.
>catharsis
Granted, It’s self inflicted but it’s clear that she still has no problems reguarding mind manipulation as an easy fix.
Hopefully, being on the recieving end this time, She’ll gain some insight as to how the ponies she used it on felt, and just how abhorrent any kind of mind control is.
A wicked hangover would be the icing on the catharsis cake as well though.
Edited
While I liked Tiara’s redemption, you have a point many characters are too often instantly redeemed, (especially Sunset, whom just had rainbows shot at her to become good, so it came off as she didn’t have a choice in the matter, and was basically brainwashed into being good) and this fan-comic parody seems to imply the same should be done with Glimmer, and that’s a bad idea IMO.
While I didn’t like her reformation at first, as you said at least Glimmer still retains some of her personality traits and flaws. Like when she wanted to make Big Mac more talkative, and such shows she still has some control issues.
Meanwhile certain others after becoming good either faded into the background, or are completely different characters now. The only exception is Discord, who’s more like a “not always reliable ally,” and he still gets to be Discord. Though, depending on the writer the Mane 6 are either friendly, or treat him like a nuisance still.
As for “Man of Steel” despite the destruction, (which was mostly from the bad guys) I don’t actually recall Superman killing anyone, even accidentally.
Except Zod, which he didn’t enjoy being forced to, as Zod seemed to want to force him to make that choice. I think that’s actually why I liked that new version of Zod over the old one. He actually had reasons to do the bad things he did, and seemed a bit smarter.
Edited
Matter of perspective. For me she’s been the most interestinc character / aspect of the show for the whole season six. (Maybe that says something about season six? Though the other characters didn’t, like, suddenly regress in it, for the most part, so probably not). On the other hand, I can’t bring myself to be interested in anything about Sunset since Rainbow Rocks came out because they just killed all of her potential.
@Background Pony #DC20
to bad they couldn’t make her interesting too.
>Starlight’s reformation was kickstarted by a realistic (within the show’s universe) psychological reason and has been proceeding realistically slowly
That’s the stuff, my man. It’s one of important reason that why I like Starlight’s reformation arc. She’s making progress, but slowly, gradually.
@Background Pony #DC20
Exactly this. A big part of why I love Starlight and find her so interesting is that she struggles to reprogram herself from an entire life of taking magical shortcuts, not caring about personal relationships, etc. IMO it’s a much better depiction than Diamond Tiara, and ESPECIALLY than the fan darling Sunset Shimmer who literally did a 180 on her personality after being defeated and almost became an expert on friendship better than Twilight in the second movie. Starlight’s reformation was kickstarted by a realistic (within the show’s universe) psychological reason and has been proceeding realistically slowly, but if you don’t dismiss her outright it’s easy to see improvements over the course of season 6. You just gotta not be blinded by nitpickery or whatever else.
uh, yeah. that’s what this is all about, man. she’s fucked up in the head for a long time. of coure, she’s gonna make a mistake and does some questionable shit. that’s pretty consistent for her character imo.