Background Pony #0A59
Everyone talks about the characters as if they are real people, making real decisions. Of course they did irredeemable things in the finale! They were the big bads of the series due to the twist making Grogar irrelevant. There would be no room for a high stakes finale if they weren’t shown as truly evil.
 
But that’s not the point. The series is about friendship. Period.
 
The finale goes against everything the show’s ever built towards. You don’t prime the viewer with empathy towards them, showing that they are more than just strawmen no one can relate to, only to kill them off in the end. That’s what people passionate about tv writing would assume would be Grogar’s role. He had very little screentime and was the prime candidate for the big bad of the finale. Defeating him would provide the same satisfying victory that a lot of people seemed to have wanted, while also giving a chance for these three villains to be redeemed and join the mane 6 against him during the battle. Not to mention it would work a hell of a lot better than the whole bell mcguffin being used as a generic power generator instead of a special mystical item only Grogar can harness.
 
It seems like the writers had everything they needed for a great series finale, but threw it away for the sake of a twist. No one needed to have such a cynical subversive showing for the two parter when they purposefully created the epilogue to be both surprising and depressing. I hate that this show changed from an wholesome escapist fantasy to something sarcastic and cynical where friendship is magic as long as you’re good friends with the people helping you to kill your enemies.
SuperSonic15
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@Red-Supernova  
And even then, I doubt Chrysalis would soften after hearing that considering how much hate she has in her heart.
GrimChariot

@Red-Supernova  
I’d hardly call him redeemed. Twilight had to lie to keep him safe after he joined Tirek the first time and this finale cement’s him as still being a garbage.
Red-Supernova
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Passionate opinionator
@GrimChariot  
Still, they “redeemed” him which I never asked for so I thought it would be fair if something I wanted to see but nobody asked for happened as a trade-off.
 
@SuperSonic15  
I dunno. They could tell her that she can hate them all she wants but all they’re doing is working for her best interest.
Background Pony #DBAC
These comments are just stupidly entertaining.
GrimChariot

@blacksunset  
Hey, Discord did the same and got a pat on the back and “Try again!”. And got more effort and work put in to making him want it.
 
These three didn’t, flat out, no exceptions, no excuses for the lackluster results by Discord and Harmony’s side.
 
Two faced garbage isn’t justifiable.
 
 
@Background Pony #DFDA
 
Gee…did you notice…his motives…shifted?
 
Because his first release was him blowing Equestria up for how they left him to rot after Scorpan toppled him, he still want’s the throne his brother took from him in his own words, and a thirty second at best clip from Jim-Jones-horses crimes really doesn’t give context.
Background Pony #950E
blacksunset

@GrimChariot  
I mean hey. Again. They each had their chance and said fuck it. Multiple times. All they wanted was to rule and destory. This was their punishment. Good guys win. Bad guys don’t. That’s just how it goes.
 
The villains had every chance to lay down their arms and stop being evil but nope. They were willing to enslave and kill anyone in their way. There’s nothing to redeem there.
GrimChariot

@blacksunset  
And again those reformed had a hell of a lot more effort put in, and were basically allowed to do whatever the hell they felt like.
 
Discord betrayed Equestria and had Twilight bold face lie to protect him.
 
You can not tell me you think that’s right in any way, otherwise your arguments sunk by your own words.
 
And they have a goal. Ends, reasons.
 
“TRUE EVIL” has no goal, no end, no lust for power or control, it seeks only unwarranted destruction and suffering.
 
Tirek wants to rule. Cozy want’s to rule, Chrysalis’ wants to rule-thats a reason and a goal with all their actions to it-and everything past that to support it.
 
Also, let’s point out the treatment of Discord’s chosen attempts.
 
Two of them were imprisoned for centuries-both in extreme isolation and one of them showing the degradation that would cause. Both were defeated-one killed, the other caged yet again.
 
One was defeated and imprisoned, for less then a year, in what’s apparently the least protected, least guarded prison in existence since nobody knew they were gone for over a year, so thats it’s own can of worms.
 
One wasn’t a threat and basically insane from her own mental swamp.
 
He brought them together and made them a threat-specifically freeing two captured and contained threats-and actively urged them to attempt evil.
 
Now another point-in what way other then making them exist with each other did he as Grogar give them a “chance”?
 
He didn’t properly keep tabs on progress, he blatantly instigated conflict and threatened them-I’d be of half a mind to beat him to death, these three would be in a gold mine with the idea because Discord fucked everything up from day one.
 
He allowed one of them to die on his first offense since revival-something Discord himself was allowed to do TWICE specifically.
 
And he pointed the three that didn’t get murdered towards an artifact he knew existed and they could use.
 
 
They had a chance in COZY trying to get them together, something no one with a quarter of a functional brain would’ve seen working with who the other two are.
 
This wasn’t a chance at redemption, it was a rail-road to failure where only four of the five responsible are punished, and the rest of the faulty crap is rewarded with stained glass windows.
blacksunset

@GrimChariot  
At the end of the day the fact is this those who got reformation either had it semi-forced upon them by the elements and were given time to change on their own or they were talked down from being evil. However you cannot reform pure evil because in that sense there is nothing to redeem. Discord is the spirit of chaos for fucks sake yet he is allied with the good guys because he wants to be; because he wants friends.
 
These three assholes just wanna rule and destroy everything. They needed to be stopped and like i said before; it’s not like the good guys killed them. Remember the storm king? Yeah. He dead. Sombra? Dead. Shadow Pony? Banished into Limbo.
 
So being petrified is a pretty merciful punishment if you ask me. Starlight attempted to extend a hoof to Queen C. but she slapped it away. Cozy basically outright said fuck friendship and harmony and Tierk only hungers for power and destruction. So banishment, imprisonment or death were their only options since they didn’t want to bend the knee and attempt to reform.
GrimChariot

@blacksunset  
They definitely can blame Discord seeing as everything from episode 1 of season 9 to this is directly a result of his actions as well.
 
And I’d hardly say Luna, risking the entire world for her petty desire to be worshiped as a god, Discord, tormenting people for purely pointless fun(and then wondering why no one wanted him to exist), and Starlight wanting to destroy timelines for petty greedy revenge are “good”.
 
Add to that Discord had a hell of a lot more effort to “reform” him, Luna was magically mind controlled and altered back into her prior state, and Starlight both got special pony princess treatment and had a mental breakdown mid fight, and I’d say every “chance” these three had was railroaded to failure from the get go by a comparative lack of effort.
 
Then theres Flim and Flam, with Applejacks arrogance, pride and ignorance in full display in their first appearance and subsequently made into a bland stereotype on the next ones, Trixie and a good chunk of others whose crimes were at best misunderstandings and at worst partly the bearers’ faults in some cases.
 
I don’t care how much “good” you have in you, you either hold everyone to the same standards instead of picking and choosing who you’re going to actually do work with or I’m calling you a hypocrite and a lying, two-faced idol.
blacksunset

@GrimChariot  
in each case those who got redeemed has a semblance of good in them to be reached. For these 3 villains there was nothing to be redeemed. There was no empathy or guilt or want to reform in any of these villains present who got turned to stone. Each of them willingly would have continued trying to destroy Equestria had nothing else been done.
 
They had their chance and lost it. They have no one to blame but themselves and again; its not like they are dead cause they aren’t.
GrimChariot

@blacksunset  
I don’t count Luna as a redemption, that was in hindsight borderline psycho active alteration-plus theres a very big problem with the Element’s if they could’ve done that from the start with Luna.
 
Discord hasn’t been redeemed though-not prior to him teaming up with Tirek and having Twilight bold-faced lie to cover him; you can see his shock at her suggesting he’d left clue’s in the episode before he rolls with it.
 
I personally don’t care who someone’s friends with, if they can basically murder someone or be allowed to skirt the consequences of their actions while lesser crimes are held to a far, far higher standard, they aren’t redeemed-they have a bias in their favor and their friends are cheating the system for personal interest.
 
Which isn’t Loyal. Surely isn’t Honest. It also isn’t Kind or Generous to the ones forced to have worse consequences for less.
 
I’m not against redemptions-and the concept of someone wanting it being a starting point when the people who’d probably benefit the most won’t ever want help from their enemies-who in Tireks case basically left him to rot for a thousand years with no effort to foster a desire for it in complete isolation-need to be taught in the first place.
 
Discord also didn’t want it till he’d been stockholmed and blackmailed in the first place, regardless of how genuine or deserved it is now, so it’s a bad base to work off of.
Twi Clown
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@PonyPon
 
Again, I’m talking about masses, not individuals. I know there’s always exceptions.
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@Twi Clown  
It’s not like no one tried to sympathize Diamond before her mom showed up.
Twi Clown
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@blacksunset
 
Yeah, but the point is that one earned hate despite being just a bully, one that eventually changed her ways and had some sympathetic background, whereas the sociopath with non redeemable qualities gets whitewashing.
blacksunset

@Twi Clown  
To be fair Diamond had a piece of shit mother who enabled her to be a bratty little shit but after she learned her lesson she was no longer bratty or mean and I LOVED her change in attitude cause it made sense. She felt bad about being so horrible and wanted to change. Cozy is happy as fuck to be an evil piece of shit and thus she deserves the fate she got
bitpony780

I still think cozy can be redeemed
 
Anyone can.
 
You just need the right words and actions
 
And right amount of love
Twi Clown
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Übermensch in training
@blacksunset
 
I even think there’s some hypocresy regarding the Cozy Glow subject if you remember that her antecesor, Diamond Tiara, despite being a kid, was a big target for abuse art and “fuck that lil’ shit” attitudes. Granted, she was an unlikeable bully, but even so, a redeemed bully got such hate despite being a child, but then the child defense comes to defend a sociopath like Cozy Glow.
blacksunset

@Twi Clown  
Bingo. Discord is the spirit of chaos however he learned to live in harmony with others and even though he’s still a dick he’s not evil anymore. Tierk and the rest? Evil to the core and I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; this fate is merciful for them. They could have easily tossed them into Limbo like they did the giant shadow pony or completely vaporized them like they did King Sombra.
 
and people seem to think Cozy being a filly gives her a pass on being sealed away…um yeah no. She was old enough to know what she was doing was wrong. She had no empathy, no remorse, no compassion, just pure evil and that is RARE. So truthfully all 3 of them are lucky to be alive; Tierk especially cause this is what? The 3rd time he’s been defeated? At what point do the good guys go ‘Ok all other options have been tried; time to go for execution’? Because frankly if it was me I would toss that statue in an active volcano in the dragon lands because those 3 are just that dangerous
Twi Clown
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Übermensch in training
@blacksunset
 
Long story short, if someone doesn’t want to change, then redemption is impossible, something that even Discord, as much of an ass as he is, has learned.
blacksunset

@GrimChariot  
here’s the thing though. None of the ones here wanted Redemption period. Luna served a 1000 year prison sentence came back and got purified of the darkness that gripped her in the first place. Discord had to get sealed away again, let out and then slowly reformed over time. Sunset Shimmer got blasted with the full brunt of the elements of harmony and was given a second chance to change her ways before things go to out of hand, Starlight…ok that was a bit of heel-faced turn that could have been done better BUT She WANTED to change. The rest of the changeling race was tired of their queen treating them like slaves and hoarding all the love to herself. Cozy was a deranged psychopath with zero empathy for anypony around her and Tierk was literally destruction incarnate.
 
Redemption for any and all of them was a far reach. Again; with Starlight Glimmer I am iffy because she literally was willing to continue fucking up the fabric of time and the lives of millions just to spite Twilight all because her best friend got taken away when she was little(Which if you consider that from the perspective of a child is actually quite sad)
 
However key difference is she wanted to change and be a better pony; she felt legitimate guilt over the bad things she did and had nightmares about it for who knows how long. The same can be said of Sunset Shimmer and even Luna whom need I remind you continued to punish HERSELF even after her redemption because she felt she deserved to be punished for the horrible things she once did.
Twi Clown
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Übermensch in training
@GrimChariot
 
Is just that it seems like a trend. I don’t know individual cases and quite frankly for the sake of my sanity I don’t really care.
 
But I just think neither of those three guys had redeeming qualities specially because they have rejected it several times, and you can’t help whoever who doesn’t want help.
GrimChariot

@Twi Clown  
The people complaining about redemptions aren’t the ones asking for them, and the people happy with them aren’t always the ones complaining about others.
 
I personally don’t like Discord being redeemed, Starlight’s redemption wasn’t really right to me-all because the way the show treats petty offenses as world ending things but hen gives mass torturers and monsters multiple chances no matter how hypocritical the process is for them.
 
I’m in camp B, I want redemptions. What I don’t want is constantly letting the “redeemed” off scot free, which is what the show does more often then not.
 
Accountability matters to me, but not to anyone who’s mad about the redemptions.
 
And simply saying it’s the same people doing both doesn’t seem like anyone saying it used their brain.
Twi Clown
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Übermensch in training
@GrimChariot
 
What does that even mean?