Moonatik 
"[@Exhumed Legume":](/images/2267941#comment_8792877
")
[@Exhumed Legume":](/images/2267941#comment_8792943
)
Holy shit where do I even start? I just wanted to post a funny meme, man.
[bq]
> How about, look at literally every socialist country ever?[/bq]
This idea that every socialist society ever resulted in tyranny is demonstrably false, my guy. There's Revolutionary Catalonia, Rojava, Zapatista Chiapas, and many more if you can be bothered to look beyond the USSR and Voovoozela.
[bq]
> let's strip everyone of their basic civil rights until they're ready for Marx's vision of True Communism™[/bq]
For one, there are more kinds of socialism that the Orthodox Marxist perspective. Socialism isn't a hegemonic hivemind. For two, even within the Marxist POV there's differences on what the step between capitalism and communism should look like, and plenty of these perspectives are more libertarian in nature (e.g. Luxemburgism). On top of that, there are several socialist modes of organising the economy that hardly even involve the state (e.g. Market/Co-operative Socialism or Syndicalism).
[bq]
> Nope. (in response to "You're getting communism and socialism mixed up."[/bq]
Again, socialism is not a hegemonic hivemind. Hell, if there's one constant throughout history it's that the left with split amongst itself and be divided against each other lmao. There are plenty of left-wingers/socialists who don't view communism as a desirable or realistic end goal, at least in their lifetimes. While all communists are socialists, not all socialists are communists.
"
[If it helps, refer to this graphic.":](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512676981502902297/675604108912230410/socialism_capitalism_and_a_whole_lot_more_chart.png
[bq])
> Socialism is the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" that was deemed a necessary intermediary stage to get there.[/bq]
While yes, under the Marxist POV a DotP is needed as a necessary step towards communism, the name is extremely misleading. What DotP referred to was any political system where the working class held all effective political power, as opposed to the system as it stands today (again, in Marx's POV) which is a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie as in today's society it's the ruling class who holds all or at least most_*effective_* political power. Lenin interpreted this to mean that his Bolshevik party, "the one true party of the proletariat", should seize all political power which of course led to the brutal excesses we saw in the USSR. But again, there are more types of socialism than just Orthodox Marxism.
[bq]
> Don't let the American conservatives/Libertarians calling Socialism Communism, and the "Nordic Model" Socialism, fool you.[/bq]
I don't, thanks.
If you wanna discuss further, by the way, DM me or go to the political thread and talk with somebody else. I doubt the mods will be happy if we continue in the way we are.
Moderator
drank the gender fluid
"
[@Exhumed Legume
Holy shit where do I even start? I just wanted to post a funny meme, man.
[bq]
> How about, look at literally every socialist country ever?
This idea that every socialist society ever resulted in tyranny is demonstrably false, my guy. There's Revolutionary Catalonia, Rojava, Zapatista Chiapas, and many more if you can be bothered to look beyond the USSR and Voovoozela.
[bq]
> let's strip everyone of their basic civil rights until they're ready for Marx's vision of True Communism™
For one, there are more kinds of socialism that the Orthodox Marxist perspective. Socialism isn't a hegemonic hivemind. For two, even within the Marxist POV there's differences on what the step between capitalism and communism should look like, and plenty of these perspectives are more libertarian in nature (e.g. Luxemburgism). On top of that, there are several socialist modes of organising the economy that hardly even involve the state (e.g. Market/Co-operative Socialism or Syndicalism).
[bq]
> Nope. (in response to "You're getting communism and socialism mixed up."
Again, socialism is not a hegemonic hivemind. Hell, if there's one constant throughout history it's that the left with split amongst itself and be divided against each other lmao. There are plenty of left-wingers/socialists who don't view communism as a desirable or realistic end goal, at least in their lifetimes. While all communists are socialists, not all socialists are communists.
"
[If it helps, refer to this graphic.
[bq]
> Socialism is the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" that was deemed a necessary intermediary stage to get there.
While yes, under the Marxist POV a DotP is needed as a necessary step towards communism, the name is extremely misleading. What DotP referred to was any political system where the working class held all effective political power, as opposed to the system as it stands today (again, in Marx's POV) which is a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie as in today's society it's the ruling class who holds all or at least most
[bq]
> Don't let the American conservatives/Libertarians calling Socialism Communism, and the "Nordic Model" Socialism, fool you.
I don't, thanks.
If you wanna discuss further, by the way, DM me or go to the political thread and talk with somebody else. I doubt the mods will be happy if we continue in the way we are.