Ohvist

@Backgroundpony  
Archduke Ferdinand would beg to differ…
Backgroundpony
Non-Fungible Trixie -

@Ohvist  
Still not her personal Actions that death happen, nor did she influence ponies to do those actions
Ohvist

@Backgroundpony  
A lot managed to happen in the near-15 years between the Sonic Rainboom and present day in each of those alternate timelines, considering the fact that in at least two of the possible timelines the Ponies were waging some sort of war where the Crystal War Timeline saw Equestria slowly losing ground to King Sombra, and the Changeling Reistance Timeline has Chrysalis and her Changelings slowly stomping out the last pocket of resistance led by Zecora (“This is the last cool thing I’ll ever do. There is no joke.”). Then the Ashlands Timeline where it is all but implied that life has been extinguished from Equestria.
Backgroundpony
Non-Fungible Trixie -

@Ohvist  
I don´t want to defend Starlight´s Twisted worldview or Actions. I don´t think we can put the implied deaths (non of them confirmed) on her tab.
Ohvist

@Porndump69  
Considering how this show is designed to be about Redemption, having a possible redemption arc for these three is not off the table entirely: with a being like Nightmare Moon being considered to be the ultimate evil for the last 1000 years, how Tempest Shadow was willing to doom her own people to a lifetime of slavery and handing over the powers of her goddesses to a monster bent on world domination just to get back her Magic instead of simply asking the rulers to restore her horn, and how Starlight Glimmers’ tainted worldview managed to unknowingly accrue what could be considered the single-largest body count across several alternate timelines: and how all three of them were able to become redeemed after Twilight managed to reach out to them in understanding why they were doing what they did.
Porndump69

Yes!
reform unrelenting evil? you’d want Steven Universe for that
Harshie83

Live from the hive
@Background Pony #5D8B  
Totally agree.
Background Pony #5845
@Smart Heart  
However it wouldn’t be fair if Cozy was the only one reformed.
DR CHRISMAN
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Artist -

@Smart Heart  
You’ll find them, just not as much here
Smart Heart

@Ohvist  
It seems I’m not alone in thinking this.
Harshie83

Live from the hive
No one is without hope, in my opinion. The events on the mountain towards the end of Frenemies is proof.
Smart Heart

@ACApenetrator50  
That’s one thing we can agree on. I can believe the other two being evil for evil’s sake, but being a pony, Cozy needs a reason for her evil.
ACApenetrator50
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).

Big loud things on poles
Cozy’s the only one that can be reformed. Chrissy and Tirek are better off being locked away or having an eduard delacroix pulled on them
Ohvist

@Harshie83  
I’m a firm believer in the theory that Pharynx and Ocellus are actually Chrysalis’ Husband and Daughter respectively. The reason why Chrysalis specifically wanted to fight Starlight was because Chrysalis thought that when Thorax took control over her Hive, one of the first things that he did was kill them in order to punish Chrysalis and try to maintain power for himself. To dip into the “Act of Desperation” theory from Canterlot Wedding, Chrysalis wasn’t actully trying to attack Canterlot for the evuls, whe indeed was motivated to help feed her race; but only after she had wiped out most of her Hive trying to protect her precious Nymph, Ocellus.
 
Proto-Queen Chrysalis committed a great taboo among members of her Caste in the Hive, she dared to create her own Proto-Queen Egg (an act according to Changeling Culture to be seen as a formal declaration of challenge to the current Queen in many regards, and usually ends with at least one corpse: either the Proto-Queen is victorious and kills the Queen, another Proto-Queen slays the offending Proto-Queen or the Nymph, or the Queen kills the recalcitrant Proto-Queen and takes the Nymph as a replacement for its mother as a Proto-Queen of the Hive, or the Proto-Queen is commanded by the Queen to kill her Nymph to try and reclaim her position as being loyal to the Queen), Chrysalis wasn’t strong like her Sisters; her function in the Hive was to oversee the Minder Caste of Changelings (their function was to watch over the hatcheries and mind the Eggs that are lain by either the Queen or the Proto-Queens, and to rear the Nymphs as they become new Drones to serve in their designated Castes). What Chrysalis lacked in outright strength, she made up in cunning; and so with her Chosen Beloved Pharynx (“Chosen Beloved” is a term of endearment between Proto-Queens and a select Breeding Male that they alone prefer to mate with over any other. Breeding Males as the name implies are fertile Male Changelings that are kept secluded away closer towards the center of the Hive and are more-protected than the Eggs are in the event of an invasion of the Hive by a foreign opponent.), the two of them sought to commit a great and terrible crime in order to protect their shared Nymph: the end result being the decimation of all the other Proto-Queens, and the death of the Queen herself. The resulting power gap was then filled in by Chrysalis as she struggled to find a way to help feed the Hive and keep the others from starving afterwards.
 
With all this in mind, it would have been presented as a tragedy to Chrysalis, a frightened mother that was trying to do everything she possibly could to protect her only child, only for the Ponies to indirectly end up kill her when thry stole away her Hive. And the reason why Ocellus doesn’t talk about this is because she herself is left unaware of her true distinction as the last Proto-Queen, one of the first actions that Chrysalis performed to protect her Nymph was to hide her among the Minders as a newly-hatched drone for the Minder Caste, with Pharynx being present to watch over her from a distance due to being established as Chrysalis’ Chosen Beloved back then: giving him a good-enough excuse to look out for his and Chrysalis’ little Nymph and protect her from harm.
Astrohippus23

cactus
I suppose it’s possible…if (particularly where Cozy is concerned) the Equestrian justice system is more forgiving than I am.
Background Pony #0718
yhea yhea . we got a good place for you. direction syberia.
Background Pony #5845
@Flufux  
Of course I don’t blame you. I don’t even want an account.
Harshie83

Live from the hive
@SSJGPiccles  
I agree. Pharnynx might be another good choice, she already knew he was one of her best warriors and the fact that he resisted the new ways at first might give him some leverage with her.
SinnerWhoKeepsTrying1978
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).

I am human, hear me err.
The fact of the matter is I agree that the three of them could be reformed. Cozy Glow’s just a filly, and just needs to be raised properly. As for Tirek and Chrysalis, just target and eliminate their anger, and befriending them should be easy enough. The same would likely go for Cozy Glow.
 
Come to think of it, what if that’s what Discord was trying to do? None of the group he gathered, not even Sombra, had their freedom taken from them. And, at one point, the remaining three were becoming friendly, at least within the trio. If Discord was trying to reform them, trying to make friends of them, and just needed guidance on the procedure, maybe he could’ve succeeded if he’d asked for and gotten help.
SunlightDrifter

@Harshie83  
Ocellus reforming Chrysalis would actually be a really good way to go about it, if you were going to do it.
Harshie83

Live from the hive
That’s why I think another Changeling might have had more luck talking to Chrysalis in the end. Maybe it wouldn’t have made any difference in the long run, but she might at least have been more willing to listen.
SunlightDrifter

@Flufux  
[bq=”Flufux”] @Background Pony #B625
You’re not altogethor wrong, but I would like to interject on behalf of a few characters.
That only proof that she gives a damn about her subjects is a single line in her debut episode, and given that she has repeatedly lied and manipulated to just about everyone around her puts that into question. Otherwise, all we’ve seen of her is that of a ruthless power-hungry sociopath who deliberately kept her subjects from evolving to their true forms just because she didn’t want them to and rejected any possible way for them to live a life where they didn’t have to steal love from others. In fact, her rule only made them starve more than they would without her.
Chrysalis does care about her Hive. In Frenemies, Chrysalis specifically states that she hasn’t felt what it was like having other’s who will be there for you since she lost her Hive. Equating her hive to friendship.
She refuses to change, but that’s because she’s so far up her own ass, not because she doesn’t care about the changelings.
While it’s possible Celestia made Sunset out for that role, nothing in the EG movies ever suggests she knew that was the case. No, what we actually know of her is that she wanted to be an ailicorn princess, in fact, she felt entitled to it, and completely rejected Celestia’s attempts to have her make friends or not be so selfish…and she responded to that by running away to another dimension instead of listening to reason. Sunset wanted power for herself, nothing more and nothing less. She even said so in the ‘My Past is Not Today’ music video.
Oh, Sunset was so wasted by being constrained to just the EG series.
In any case, I feel your view has to be pretty narrow to think that it was just about Sunset being greedy. Whether it was intentional on the writers part or not, Celestia clearly has faults. Luna is proof of that, and Sunset is directly paralleled with Luna in her backstory comic.
First of, they only joked about it in Forgotten Friendship, but let’s face it. Celestia IS a bad teacher. Celestia told her to make friends, just like she told Twilight, but she neglected to ever once explain why or really explain anything at all. Same with Twilight really. Twilight just kind of stumbled into the right thing.
How’s Sunset expected to grow if Celestia doesn’t tell her WHY what she’s doing is wrong and the reasons behind what she needs to do? Sunset believed what she was doing was the best way to get what she wanted and that it would set her free. Says so both at the end of the EG movies and the song you mentioned earlier. I admit that’s vague as hell, but it gives evidence that it probably wasn’t all about being greedy. Sunset changes her tune the moment Twilight proves Friendship is better than what she was doing, which Celestia again, failed to do.
Finally, I think it’s pretty firmly implied Sunset sees Celestia as her mother. As far as we know, Celestia is literally the only guiding figure in her life. Sunset was her student before Twilight, they had a journal that let hem always stay in touch, and when Sunset’s memory is wiped, she calls out for Celestia to help her. Most convincingly, in Wake up Sunset Shimmer, Sunset says, “Princess Celestia, I don’t want to go to magic school” in her sleep. A short line that implies a ton of things. Obviously it’s a slight remix of “mom, I don’t want to go to school” again hinting at the nature of their relationship, but it also confirms that Sunset did live in the castle with Celestia, and Celestia cared for her to the degree of personally waking Sunset from her sleep. like a mother.
So, when Sunset tries to get what she wants with restricted materials, and Celestia catches her, and throws her out of the castle with barley a moment of hesitation and no attempt to again actually EXPLAIN what Sunset’s doing wrong, it’s a lot more understandable, WHY Sunset would go nuts.
Mostly true…though you forgot to mention that Vorak had such a low opinion of his son because Tirek was a power-hungry and overly entitled sociopath, even as a teenager.
Tirek was like that because as his Mother plainly said, Vorak never embraced Tirek for who he was. Tirek had a gift for magic in general, which was rare among their kind, and he was shunned by his father for it.
So, he drove himself to the extremes he did because he wanted to prove himself to his father. Discord plainly states that’s what it’s all about in the finale even.
Flufux
Artist -

Flufux Corporations
@Background Pony #5D8B  
Oooooh, now I remember you. You’re the one who disagreed with me on the finale on that Discord/Grogar picture, right? Or am I mistaken? Anyway, since you’re using the ‘Background Pony’ moniker, you can’t blame for not recognising you.
 
Hi, nice seeing you again.
 
I don’t want to start another argument.
 
On that, I couldn’t agree more.