GeneralKenobi75
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@ABronyAccount  
Sounds more like the argument of a purist. I’m a major fan of the books, and yet I find what Jackson changed by having the elves fight at Helm’s Deep a good change.
 
And what exactly did the elves coming to Helm’s Deep “erase” from Tolkien’s meanings? If anything it added more because it showed that not all hope is lost if the elves still have enough faith in humanity to come to their aid and ensure their future.
ABronyAccount
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag

@GeneralKenobi75  
His argument has never been “because it didn’t happen in the books.” He’s made an argument that the way things happened in the book had a certain meaning for the story, consistent and intentionally aligned with Tolkien’s broader themes, and the changes made in the movie (like Elves at Helm’s Deep) erases some of those meanings. Is the erasure of those meanings that he takes issue with. Not “it didn’t happen in the book JUST BECAUSE!”
GeneralKenobi75
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Ponylooker  
So because something didn’t happen in the books it automatically makes it a bad addition? Very “open-minded” of you.
 
Also, that’s why its so impactful. Despite the fact that their time is over and the Middle Earth they knew is no more, some elves still being willing to fight to fight alongside humanity in their hour of need is very inspiring. Despite knowing that they will likely die, they will sacrifice their lives so that humankind has a chance. One last hurrah for the elves, much stronger than just “oh we are fading so lets just give up” we see in the books.
 
Also, Tolkien himself often added pointless scenes that really added nothing. Need we remember Tom Bombidal?
 
Also, in the books expanded material the elves still participated in the War of the Ring. Lothlorien was besieged three times. And Galadriel herself destroyed Lothlorien. So the elves are capable of that in the books. Here, we actually get to see some of that on screen.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
@Ponylooker  
I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, given that he was an academic, but … yeah. I just kind of assumed the person who created Gandalf sitting in the deep dusty libraries of Minas Tirith would be pro-libraries, if only because Minas Tirith.
Ponylooker
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Platinum bit -
Sapphire -
Happy Derpy! -
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

We Crossdress Harder
@Derpy Whooves  
Yeah, I wanted to add a link to back me up because it sounds so crazy, but trying to google “Tolkien” and “library” together is just impossible.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
@Ponylooker  
I did not know that. I haven’t read his biography, maybe I should do that.
Ponylooker
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Platinum bit -
Sapphire -
Happy Derpy! -
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

We Crossdress Harder
@Meanlucario  
Nor would I. I mean, if I remember right, Tolkien was staunchly against public libraries and considered them to be theft. My position does not come from blind hero worship.
Meanlucario
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Kinship Through Differences - Celebrated the 11th anniversary of MLP:FIM!

Time to get spooky
@Background Pony #9C76  
People need money to survive, I wouldn’t ever deny that.
Background Pony #F769
@Background Pony #9C76
I will note that your first quote regards the travesty of elements being added, of which every scene I cited is an example; and that while everything has its price, the 1957 cartoon was never made, indicating clearly that art won the day.
Not all added elements. Unwarranted additions that fail to understand where “the core of the original lies”. Something added in service to the themes and concepts he was trying to convey would not have that issue.
 
As for the other point, going by Tolkien’s letters on having read the screenplay, the proposed animated feature was an abjectly abysmal attempt at adapting the source material that cut and compressed with reckless abandon and misunderstood even the basics of what his story was about. But that still doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have gone through with it, for want of a few changes to make it more palatable and a dump truck or two full of money.
 
 
@Meanlucario  
@Ponylooker
Sounds more like money winning the day, since art would allow different interpretations and view, since no change kills art better than any bad adaptation.
It’s funny, his book of letters has one where he wryly comments on having won a literary award he had not known he was even in the running for, and one of his takes on the matter is that publicity means more sales which means (of course) more profit for him.
 
The man made an inestimable mark on the landscape of fantasy fiction, but let it never be said he didn’t care about his works as a source of income too.
Meanlucario
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Kinship Through Differences - Celebrated the 11th anniversary of MLP:FIM!

Time to get spooky
@Ponylooker  
Sounds more like money winning the day, since art would allow different interpretations and view, since no change kills art better than any bad adaptation.
Ponylooker
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Platinum bit -
Sapphire -
Happy Derpy! -
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

We Crossdress Harder
@Background Pony #9C76  
I will note that your first quote regards the travesty of elements being added, of which every scene I cited is an example; and that while everything has its price, the 1957 cartoon was never made, indicating clearly that art won the day.
Background Pony #F769
@Meanlucario
And there it is. You’d throw away the nuance and depth of Tolkien’s lore because “I wanna see elves be cool.”
Aside from that not really being what he’s saying at all, how about considering the words of Tolkein himself. He was approached about a movie adaptation (albeit an animated one) as far back as 1957, and when reviewing the proposed story line made a comment that I think sums up the matter quite clearly.
But I would ask them to make an effort of imagination sufficient to understand the irritation (and on occasion the resentment) of an author, who finds, increasingly as he proceeds, his work treated as it would seem carelessly in general, in places recklessly, and with no evident signs of any appreciation of what it is all about. ….
The canons of narrative an in any medium cannot be wholly different ; and the failure of poor
films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not
perceiving where the core of the original lies.
–From a letter to Forrest J. Ackerman [Not dated; June 1958], J.R.R. Tolkein, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
Tolkien knew quite well that adaptation would necessarily alter elements of his story. He said so himself in a previous missive on the same subject, and was even ok with the possibility (under the right conditions).
An abridgement by selection with some good picture-work would be pleasant, & perhaps worth a good deal in publicity…
[But] I am quite prepared to play ball, if they are open to advice – and if you decide that the thing
is genuine, and worthwhile.
–From a letter to Rayner Unwin 7 September 1957, J.R.R. Tolkein, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
The common element in both examples, however, is that what matters to him is less an exact replication of his every word, but a respect for the story he had written. He doesn’t mind adjustment and alteration, so long as the core of the story, the themes and overall intent of the narrative, is maintained. And honestly, for all the changes and character compression that does occur in Jackson’s movie version, it does a (not perfect but) commendable job of keeping the majority of character actions and story events where they ought to be.
 
But if that still isn’t enough to appease you, well, I invite you to consider that even Tolkien was fine letting some things slide if the payday was big enough.
They have apparently toured America shooting mountain and desert scenes that seem to fit the story. The Story Line or Scenario was, however, on a lower level. In fact bad. But it looks as if business might be done. Stanley U. &: I have agreed on our policy : Art or Cash. Either very profitable terms indeed ; or absolute author’s veto on objectionable features or alterations.
–From a letter to Christopher and Faith Tolkien 11 September 19, J.R.R. Tolkein, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
Meanlucario
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Kinship Through Differences - Celebrated the 11th anniversary of MLP:FIM!

Time to get spooky
@PUBLIQclopAccountant  
I remember the reason they said was moving Shelob to RotK was due to it happening during the RotK siege rather than Helm’s Deep in the books, and Peter wanted to keep that consistent in the movie.
PUBLIQclopAccountant
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Magical Inkwell - Wrote MLP fanfiction consisting of at least around 1.5k words, and has a verified link to the platform of their choice

IRL 🎠 stallion
No Tom Bombadil 0/10
 
@Joshua  
They also moved all the stuff about Shelob to RotK from TTT.
 
 
@kleptomage  
I liked all the connections to LotR they added from other Tolkein writings. They should have cut the romance arc and trimmed it down to two movies. I remember the third one being three hours of Legolas skateboarding up and down Helm’s Deep. At least the music was up to the usual standards.
raw19
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

I Open at the Close
@Background Pony #06CD  
Indeed. Or we could have had some more of Snape and Harry dueling or seen some of the battle in Hogwarts between The Deatheaters and Dumbledore’s Army. All far more important in the grand scheme of things then the burrow burning.
Derpy Whooves
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Looking For My Doctor
Deletion reason: Trying to be nice didn't work, apparently.
Meanlucario
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Kinship Through Differences - Celebrated the 11th anniversary of MLP:FIM!

Time to get spooky
Deletion reason: Rule #0
Ponylooker
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Platinum bit -
Sapphire -
Happy Derpy! -
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

We Crossdress Harder
Deletion reason: Rule #0
Meanlucario
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Kinship Through Differences - Celebrated the 11th anniversary of MLP:FIM!

Time to get spooky
@Ponylooker  
I fail to see how a movie adaptation is the same as marriage.
Ponylooker
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Platinum bit -
Sapphire -
Happy Derpy! -
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

We Crossdress Harder
@Meanlucario  
“She’s not faithful, but she’s still a good wife.” This is how you sound to me.
Meanlucario
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Kinship Through Differences - Celebrated the 11th anniversary of MLP:FIM!

Time to get spooky
@Ponylooker  
I think you’re overreacting quite a bit here.
 
@ABronyAccount  
The Hobbit is great. It’s not faithful, but is still a good trilogy.
ABronyAccount
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag

@Ponylooker  
It’s not quite a Hobbit-scale source rape?
Ponylooker
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Platinum bit -
Sapphire -
Happy Derpy! -
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

We Crossdress Harder
@Meanlucario  
I mean, it’s not nearly as bad as the pointless Yukon Cornelius Aragorn bit, or shield-surfing, or dwarf-tossing, or completely fucking over Faramir’s entire character, or any one of a hundred other things Jackson fucked up, but it’s on the list.
Meanlucario
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Kinship Through Differences - Celebrated the 11th anniversary of MLP:FIM!

Time to get spooky
@Ponylooker  
Seeing as it’s showing us elves respecting men instead of telling us, I say it was a good addition. Seriously, it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things that some elves are willing to die to help man defeat an old evil and live in Middle Earth after they leave. Not enough to get upset over, at least.
Ponylooker
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Platinum bit -
Sapphire -
Happy Derpy! -
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

We Crossdress Harder
@Meanlucario  
And there it is. You’d throw away the nuance and depth of Tolkien’s lore because “I wanna see elves be cool.”