Uploaded by Rbloxmlp69 
1024x1172 PNG 199 kB
Interested in advertising on Derpibooru? Click here for information!
Help fund the $15 daily operational cost of Derpibooru - support us financially!
Description
No description provided.
Source
not provided yet
Seconded. He’s still low.
Right. Goes to show how much an impression he left on me. Ultimately, he’s not that bright for what we got in the end, and is vastly overshadowed by far superior antagonists. I don’t honestly feel that cheated since there’s more than enough better conceived and executed antagonists to more than make up for this great blunder.
I think we can agree that when you remake something, there’s always a stigma hanging over it regardless of how well or poor the original was. There ends up being two or more fronts to approach and criticize it from as opposed to just one. Not all of them will be equal to their namesakes like Spike. He was, but others weren’t so fortunate.
With original characters there’s no direct comparison, so they will fail or succeed on their own merits.
I have already spoken my piece on what I feel about Tirek’s character in a previous comment, and on the parts we disagree, I guess we just have to disagree. All we have is own personal opinions after all.
However, one thing I would like to address is the presumption you made in this statement.
Is that why you mentioned the comics earlier? Because while Tirek’s backstory was explored in the Fiendship is Magic comic series, a lot of it was brought up in the show itself.
For instance, his history with his brother was told in a storybook sequence by Celestia in Twilight’s Kingdom.
And Tirek himself mentioned him numerous times in the episode itself.
“Please, I have seen this before, but he was always weak-minded. You are Discord, you are legend, you cannot fall into the same trap that claimed my brother.”
“Here, I want you to have something. This was given to me by someone very close to me, I give it to you as a sign of my gratitude and loyalty.”
“My brother who betrayed me, but it’s as useless as he is.”
This part of his backstory was not only in the comics, it was in the show front and centre as well, as was his complicated relationship with his father as proven by this line in the series finale.
“You’re right, cretin is too polite. How about pathetic centaur, who uses magic to compensate for the fact that deep down he’ll never be enough to please dear old dad, King Vorak?”
That part of his character could have been more deeply explored, and it’s a shame it wasn’t, especially since it would make him feel a bit more like an actual person despite being irredeemably evil. So no, I don’t think the problem was that they used him too much, but rather that they didn’t use him to his full potential when they had the chance.
The conversation simply started going in that direction. It’s difficult not to talk about the merits of a series that is often condemned way more than it needs to when aspects of it are brought up.
The plain fact is Tirek is no good, which in this sense means he’s plain evil and doesn’t have redeeming qualities. And it looked like you were going to defend him again as you had been doing. When you mention backstory that doesn’t have anything to do with animated series. And any singular reference is just leaning on the fandom again as this series is like to do.
You can have outright evil characters when they have real motives and goals beyond overthrowing everything for the hell of it, or when you barely see them, and they are treated as a presence. It gets less inspired real quick when you have too much of a pure evil charter who’s wicked for its own sake, and they are on screen most of the time. Only a good actor salvages that, but the writing does not. This is one case where less is more. No one reading the script would find a character like this interesting. Just someone you would be terrified of if they were real, but as a fictitious character is a mere brute who has little vulnerability, and is thus not engaging to write about.
Chryssie to her credit is not remotely affable, but she has skills and foresight that would keep one on board with or without VAs to help them along. This is one who would have no qualms with drowning animals, or sucking every emotion out of you leaving you without any feelings for as long as it takes for them to return. A race of beings that find sustenance by literally siphoning the very feelings out of other sentient beings, and requires no solid food.
That’s a damn sight more intriguing than a total monster who wants nothing more than to feed himself on raw energy he does not need, and make ponies miserable for the hell of it. He’s not even leading anyone. As a decrepit old dude he’s full of mystery what with him luring unsuspecting ponies to him to bleed them dry, and not seeing him fully leaves one wondering what’s under the cloak. One the cloak comes off and you see everything, any mystery or subtlety is gone, and we have yet another hulking brute who can overtake whatever he wishes. We certainly haven’t seen that a million times over. The execution is better than the concept. I cannot blame the OP for feeling the way s/he does. S/he could have been more mild.
His namesake remains similar to this Chernabog or Sauron like being who isn’t onscreen very much, and is mostly heard giving orders. Then once he is seen, there’s not much time left. He is shortly obliterated, and that’s the last anyp- anybody saw or heard of him. And it’s no doubt for the best. Wouldn’t want to be exposed to him till we were bored of him. _That_is how you handle plain evil characters. Don’t overuse them. Otherwise give us a backstory or allow them to have some cunning.
I will concede this: The ponies with about three or four exceptions have next to nothing to them, and almost all the characters I think are memorable are the associates, companions and antagonists. Maybe the series could have gone by some other name.
Hey, now you’re just putting words in my mouth! I never said anything of the sort. I personally really liked that they made season 9 the final season so they could give it a proper ending…and yes, I loved the ending it got. It’s so rare to see a show properly end rather than ending up being cancelled on a cliffhanger like the Spectacular Spider-Man was.
I was just about to ask you the same question, as you seem to consistently misunderstand what I’m saying or derail the conversation into something I wasn’t even alluding to. For example:
When did we start talking about the comic line? I didn’t mention them, so how are they relevant to this conversation?
Also, I have plenty of middle ground. Remember this statement?
Now really, what point are you trying to make here? Really, I’m curious. Because I’m getting the feeling that we’re talking about two very different things.
How canon are comics? Most of them wouldn’t fly in the animated series.
And we get plenty of Nightmare Moon, just most of it isn’t in the present. Most of it is flashback. Not just expositional narration.
Does the term “Too much of a good thing” or “Excess” mean anything to you? If FiM went on for decades it would inevitably end up like The Simpsons or Spongebob Squarepants. Creative stories cannot go on forever without eventually making things up as you go along. And it doesn’t boost your originality points when you make parodies and parallels to every exact person, place, event, and thing in the world, universe even. That is only good in small doses, and this series goes overboard with it. It’s not unlike one of the other two in that sense, only it usurped it. And it does get repetitive the further along it gets, thank you Fluttershy.
I quit watching FiM save the eps as they came to YouTube, and I am far from alone in this.
Is there no middle ground with you?
No need to get melodramatic here. You do remember that we’re just normal people on the internet discussing characters from a children’s cartoon, right? Also, that’s a ridiculously arrogant statement to make, and really isn’t called for in any way.
You mean aside from the characters actually having depth while in the older generations they were mostly girly stereotypes who had minor quirks over relatable personalities.
And you keep saying that this series overuses characters by running them into the ground, while that might be true some of the time (though honestly, I think a lot of other shows do that way more than FIM), when it comes to villains, I’d say the problem is more the opposite, since most bad guys get far less screentime and development than they should have.
Nightmare Moon had an interesting backstory and motivation, but got defeated for good in the second episode of the show before we actually got the chance of doing something with that, the Pony of Shadows is kinda in the same boat, as he never stuck around long enough to show how big of a threat he supposedly is, not to mention were his powers barely explored, the Storm King had a really funny personality and loads of charisma but only really showed up at the end of the movie and was defeated way too quickly, and King Sombra had possibly more potential than any of them, yet they barely did anything with him until season 9, and even then they didn’t even let him join the villain team up. Heck, even Tirek has a lot of untapped potential, especially concerning his complicated relationship with his brother and father, which were only alluded to in the show itself.
I’d like to see how you’d act in a world where you are the only person around who isn’t an imbecile.
And the hoarse voice alone doesn’t derail everything else. It’s virtually the same character, minus a post. FiM only has the benefit of being decade long running, and that longevity isn’t always kind to its recurring characters. I see the primary versions as more or less equal, and I do not count the filler stuff. Those are only largely unconnected shorts, skits. Not especially good ones, either.
Tirek as a pure evil and quite powerful entity works best as either a one shot, or as a mostly unseen entity, much like the ones I listed. Characters like that get dull when you hang onto them too long, or give them too much screentime. The only thing that salvages them is good casting and the actors breathing life into them.
He was an example of how an original character could be better. When you have nothing to compare to, you don’t disappoint on more than one front.
Who’s “D”? Judging by the rest of that paragraph, I’m willing to guess maybe…Discord? Though how he has anything to do with the topic at hand I don’t understand since he’s only ever been in G4 and I didn’t even mention him in my comment.
I dunno, have you seen Princess Promenade from G3? That version of Spike was really kind of a obnoxious jerk, and not particularly likeable at all…and the G1 one version’s voice almost made my ears bleed at times.
Open up a can of worms, why don’t you.
There’s some original ones I thought could be done better, and existing characters who are generally handled well.
I like “D” in general, especially when he’s used for comic relief. When he’s used for deep plots he tends to get reckless and incompetent. When there’s a crisis he doesn’t have any business being away from Fluttershy or Spike, one of which should be at his side always. He’s highly intelligent, but not very wise. He’s knows how to come to short term solutions real good, but long term planning isn’t his forte. He has no longterm foresight. I hope to goodness there’s no circumstance that requires both Spike and Fluttershy to be there and he can’t come with them. The comedy stories is where he shines the best.
Spike is again one of my favorite characters. I like the general idea of him, and the way he’s most consistently portrayed makes him a favorite of mine. The problem is he gets juggled between numerous writers who have trouble pining him down. I’d have liked it if Faust and Larson did everything, as they always seemed to know what they were doing.
Spike’s Search vs Dragon Quest. There’s no bad version of Spike, or even better version of him, but here’s one case where a direct remake of a story failed to do what the original did. Unintended implications and blanks left for the listener to fill makes the latter more insufferable than intended. The other has no unfortunate implications, and has one of the Williams kids outright state one does not represent all.
He’s generally done well, even with hiccups. But he’s always been awesome in any incarnation.
I would agree with about a third of what you’re saying. In the season 4 finale, Tirek really became a lot more boring once he started to grow huge, and he really was a lot more intimidating as a creepy old man.
However, at the same time, I very much disagree that he should have only been a one-shot character. In the season 8 finale, he was perfect as a sort of ‘Hannibal Lecter-esque’ villain working with Cozy Glow while still locked up in his cell, and in season 9 his interactions with Cozy and Chrysalis were by far the highlights of the season.
I also disagree with the notion that every time they bring a g1 character into g4, they inevitably fail at it. I mean, Spike is certainly a far more likeable character in g4, so is Applejack, and I see no issues with the Smooze in ‘Make New Friends but Keep Discord’ either.
I am behind it. Whenever they have tried to translate a gen one character into FiM, it nearly always fell flat, and Tirek is no exception. It does its best with original characters.
Not only was Tirac in the old series a great villain, the new one was at his most effective as a fragile creepy dude lurking about sucking unsuspecting ponies dry when they least suspect it. Once they turned him into this hulking overpowered manic, he got less inspired. His bland design didn’t help. He should have been a one shot as should many other characters, Iron Will included. But hey brought him back, they ran him into the ground, and got tired from overexposure.
Chryssie showing up multiple times is more justified, as she’s truly wicked, but there’s more aspects to her than being a plain evil power junkie. She’s not one note. Being more clever and deceptive, a good actress and spy, an infiltrator, having subjects to feed, and almost certainly being a mother are all under her belt.
Plain evil characters work best when they are a presence, an apparition, a specter, one you barely see if at all. Sombra in this series, the original Tirek, Sauron, Chernabog.
Getting too much of a villain being pure evil for evil’s sake, and having an onscreen presence is never as good as having that same kind be an ominous background noise or having real goals and motives. Like Chrysalis being bitter at her defeat and becoming obsessed with revenge, making ponies miserable, which is also consistent with her being stubborn.
You ever heard of the phrase, “less can be more?” This is certainly appropriate to apply here. And “Too much of a good thing” certainly applies to FiM in general. It really didn’t benefit from going on much longer than it needed too, and running what should have been one shot characters into the ground didn’t help.
Some characters loved by so many are quite frankly obnoxious all around, theatricality be damned, and Tirek is one of them. I found him less so when delicate and barely seen. Whenever they have recycled an old character I have yet to see them actually improve them, at least not ones whose names and designs hadn’t been changed.
And wasn’t “D” always something of a complexity addicted imbecile to begin with? Whatever wisdom he has acquired is cheap
and would always be. He’s easily swayed, so I would think if he thinks he can get away with it. If there were a world ending cataclysm and he could only save two others he would take Fluttershy and Spike and never look back. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t sad until the two of them started mourning. When did he ever show legitimate care for anyone else?
I never said he was a pushover, I was referring to actors owning the roles. (And no, I wasn’t saying his was terrible, either, Nightmare Moon and Chrissie were simply the best).
Pure evil is old hack. It doesn’t befit a series like this, even less so when we already have the likes of Chrissie around.
You’re talking to someone who was drawing G1 Tirek before the S4 premiere even was a thing, bruh. :P Plus I cannot count how many times I’ve watched Midnight Castle and I do not once recall Tirek ever having a backstory in that one. Unless you mean the word “former” which would have made more sense given the context.
I also do not for the life of me understand why people see Tir as only being “brute force” and that’s it. People seem to completely overlook the fact he was able to sway Discord back to evil without batting an eye, which was the only reason he was able to obtain the power he needed that quickly, so the “lack of resourcefulness” you claim he has does not ring with me, sorry. I also don’t consider “overpowered Rainbow Ponies that needed six individual pieces to unlock” as “easily beaten by others.” :P
In other words, he overstays his welcome for what he is.
See the old series. It gets loads of flack for not being FiM, which was never the point to begin with. Tirek is a big letdown for anyone who liked the old show, and even by FiM’s standards is a boring one note villain next to Nightmare Moon and Chrissie. A straight power junkie who gets off on other’s misery gets dull quickly as it’s one of the most overdone villain tropes next to plain greed. We get the backstory for one, and the other displays legitimate cleverness and resourcefulness on top of being portrayed by hammy VAs. Only the latter trait goes to Tirek, and even there he’s easily beat by others.
Brute strength and being overpowered work once, then get dull awfully quickly. He’s more effective as a fragile creepy guy which is barely in the program. Almost always he’s the overpowered monster pictured here. See the old series and you will never look at this the same again.
Wow, that’s a big turnaround.
Though for me, even when a character is meant to be hateable, I often find it hard to really hate them if they’re written well and their despicable behaviour advances the plot in interesting ways. For instance, Diamond Tiara’s mother is such an unpleasant character that you really just want to slap her, but her presence alone is part of what made Crusaders of the Lost Mark such an enjoyable episode, so I can’t actually hate her.
The characters that I do hate are mostly those that completely lost the mark, are genuinely annoying, poorly written or make the story they’re in worse by their mere presence.
I never said movies shouldn’t have villains, I just said that they’re villains and the writers intended for you to hate them.
Oh who am I kidding, I like the villains as well.
I completely agree with this; since my early childhood I have always watched movies and shows (especially animated ones) because I just enjoy the villain characters so much, arguably way more than the heroes. Maleficent, Ursula, Jenner; heck even sillier SatAM villains like Hacker and Robotnik were far more enjoyable for kid me to watch than the protagonists just because of the antics they were capable of pulling for entertainment purposes. Heck the only reason I even got into FiM to begin with was because of Discord, and it just went from there.
Tirek is in the top of my favorite villains list and I seriously have yet to meet a person who hates him for a legitimately decent reason, which all the more just solidifies my view on things, tbh :P
Of course there are movies that work without an obvious antagonist, but it’s hard to do and only work for certain stories. Pixar is especially good at doing those. However, what you’re implying is that adding a villain to a story automatically makes it bad for some reason…and I can tell you right now that that’s absolute nonsense. Have you ever seen an action movie, superhero movie, or other type of media that uses an antagonist that you enjoyed? Well, the story wouldn’t even exist without that villain being in the movie.
Besides, villains are usually the most fun characters to watch, as they can be intimidating, cool, funny or even perfectly hatable so that it’s more satisfying to see them lose.
What about the movie Inside Out.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Do you have any idea how boring stories would be without villains? You would just have a hero who’s just standing around doing nothing because the world would be all hunky dory. Do you like action, adventure, tension or anything like that? Well, without an antagonist to cause the problem, you wouldn’t have any of that.