MGB_GT
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

I’ve always liked you. You’re still best pony to me but I’ll accept people for saying you’re not perfect.
 
hugs
 
“Why are these people arguing?”
 
Too stupid to be kind I guess.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@ForegroundPony  
No, that sounds exactly as ridiculous, over the top and unnecessary as what I said about Twilight. She has accoplished enough things in this series to be on par with others; your only ever point is that she doesn’t go long distances to look for it, which doesn’t matter in the long run, nor do it denies her development.
 
Twilight goes out of her way to develop new skills, as well as seeking chances to help others. Aside from her study of magic and friendship and whatever duties Celestia assigns, she organized Winter Wrap Up, helped train the pegasus ponies for lifting water to Cloudsdale, and organized an effort to disaster proof Ponyville. Applejack is often training physically, offered to donate prize money from a rodeo to the town, runs Sweet Apple Acres, visits and helps her family, and took over the duty of organizing family reunions. Rainbow Dash is the primary Ponyville weather pony as well as training for the Wonderbolts, and competing in local events. Rarity mines her own gems, makes scores of dresses, and tries to expand her customer base. Pinkie works at a bakery, knows all the people in town as well as when their birthdays are, takes a second job as a fortune teller, either makes or acquires the machines that she uses, and sets up emergency stashes around town.
 
Fluttershy hangs out with her animal friends. She herds them around, but only very occasionally. She’s used a song bird choir twice and adopted out an animal once, but I’m still not sure what her actual job is. Those two things happen too rarely to be a steady source of income.
 
Applejack and Rainbow Dash were team leads during the Winter Wrap Up, and Pinkie Pie and Rarity both seemed to get positions of responsibility when Twilight reorganized things. Fluttershy was not a captain, and never got put into a place of responsibility.
 
Fluttershy has not done things on the same scale as the others, not of her own volition. And that’s fine, but doesn’t change the fact that she’s the underachiever of the group.
 
Likewise, Fluttershy constantly brings new species of animals to her cottage, she’s also always on her way whenever there’s opportunity to meet or help a new one.
 
She’s only been shown to bring a new species to her cottage once, with the parasprites. The first time that we see anything like a tour of her menagerie is in the second season, and all of those animals seemed to have been there for a while, rather than any new arrivals. We don’t have any well of telling when she got them, so saying that she’s been collecting them recently is impossible to prove. Actually kind of unlikely, to be honest, since she already has their habitats set up, and isn’t shown building new ones or expanding existing ones, which would be required if she was constantly expanding her collection.
 
Incidentally, the bear was mentioned back in the first season, meaning that it definitely wasn’t a new friend. Also, it doesn’t live with Fluttershy. It’s never lived with Fluttershy. The bear has a home out in the woods. We’ve seen it.
 
Fluttershy brings home animals she meets around Ponyville. She’s never been shown to specifically search for new ones, or implied to do so. She’s happy to live with the ones that she has.
 
She does bring some animals home, but that’s by far the exception rather than the rule.
 
Why are you focusing on collecting new animals, by the way? It’s not something that Fluttershy focuses on, and would require pulling them out of their existing habitats for her own enjoyment, something that would be out of character for her. We’ve actually seen her put more effort into putting them back into their proper environment that taking them home.
ForegroundPony
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Sjogre  
That has nothing to do with Twilight’s job or duties. Fluttershy forming an awareness group or setting up a monitoring network has everything to do with helping animals. And I don’t expect her to do that, it’s just an example of something that she’d have to do to be on par with the other manes.
 
No, that sounds exactly as ridiculous, over the top and unnecessary as what I said about Twilight. She has accoplished enough things in this series to be on par with others; your only ever point is that she doesn’t go long distances to look for it, which doesn’t matter in the long run, nor do it denies her development.
 
 
Twilight doesn’t know all the magic in the world, but she is expanding her skill set whenever she has a moment. Rainbow Dash tries new maneuvers, Applejack takes on new responsibilities, Pinkie sets up new pranks and makes more machines, Rarity tries to expand her business. Fluttershy doesn’t do that.
 
Likewise, Fluttershy constantly brings new species of animals to her cottage, she’s also always on her way whenever there’s opportunity to meet or help a new one. I think I said something like thats several times already. What else do you want? Finding new ways to bandage mouses? Oh yes, “monitorning network” so she can bandage mouses on an industrial level!
 
If anything you can only find such talent only to be most trivial of them all, which is okay, though probably animals she helped would not think so (nor probably reformed Discord).
 
 
The only reason most of that came up was because you mentioned it first. I tend to assume that misplaced wildlife like seals are just there for a joke, while you assumed that it was proof of her traveling Equestria. I only took it seriously because you did.
 
Touché, but then, that was just an example of new species appearing in her zoo. I might as well say an eagle, bear or a hippopotamus, as to proove her expansion you doubt in.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@ForegroundPony  
You also demend too much from her. It’s like saying Twilight should set up around ponyville spells that automitically carry ponies’ heavy bags or crap like that.
 
That has nothing to do with Twilight’s job or duties. Fluttershy forming an awareness group or setting up a monitoring network has everything to do with helping animals. And I don’t expect her to do that, it’s just an example of something that she’d have to do to be on par with the other manes.
 
You can’t expect Fluttershy to just know everything bout every creature in existance, especially like Philomena with misleading appearance, who on top of that just screws with caretaker on purpose (not to mention that being simply plot device of the episode).
 
I don’t expect her to recognize every species that she encounters. I do expect her to try to identify a species that she doesn’t recognize.
 
The other Manes improve their skills all the time. Fluttershy alone is not trying to make herself better.
 
Twilight doesn’t know all the magic in the world, but she is expanding her skill set whenever she has a moment. Rainbow Dash tries new maneuvers, Applejack takes on new responsibilities, Pinkie sets up new pranks and makes more machines, Rarity tries to expand her business. Fluttershy doesn’t do that.
 
Again, not a bad person, but not as good as the others. Personally, I think that it’s a nice contrast; she’s the only one that’s really laid back. She knows that she’s not the best and is okay with that.
 
The thing is, in your blocks of text you say things that doesn’t matter like wondering about how that seal got there or why Canterlot gardess are accessable only during the gala; or theorize about how obvious exaggeration of the song is a proof that Fluttershy doesn’t know how animals work. You might as well start asking why are they suddenly singing and make all their words rhyme.
 
I’m pointing out some of the oddities, but I don’t think that they detract from Fluttershy’s skills. Fluttershy suggesting difficult animals to Rainbow actually implies that she has little difficulty taking care of them, making her skills more impressive.
 
The only reason most of that came up was because you mentioned it first. I tend to assume that misplaced wildlife like seals are just there for a joke, while you assumed that it was proof of her traveling Equestria. I only took it seriously because you did.
ForegroundPony
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Sjogre  
Of course Pinkie seeks to learn new jokes because no one laughs at the same one every time. That’s just nature Fluttershy’s work. There isn’t that much of a room for expansion. Yet she still improoves and expands in her own way. You can only argue that she doesn’t do that in some sort of formalized way, or sometimes she needs little encouragement from others - you can’t argue that she DON’T.
 
You also demend too much from her. It’s like saying Twilight should set up around ponyville spells that automitically carry ponies’ heavy bags or crap like that. Fluttershy already deos cher chunk of work around ponyville.  
Even bookworm Twilight doesn’t know every spell in existance. You can’t expect Fluttershy to just know everything bout every creature in existance, especially like Philomena with misleading appearance, who on top of that just screws with caretaker on purpose (not to mention that being simply plot device of the episode). But in the end it was because she took that opportunity, she laerned about phoenixes. Again it’s only about the way she learn, not that she don’t learn nor doesn’t try to learn.
 
 
Everything I’ve said is based off of what I saw in the television show, even checking transcripts a couple of times.
 
The thing is, in your blocks of text you say things that doesn’t matter like wondering about how that seal got there or why Canterlot gardess are accessable only during the gala; or theorize about how obvious exaggeration of the song is a proof that Fluttershy doesn’t know how animals work. You might as well start asking why are they suddenly singing and make all their words rhyme.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@ForegroundPony  
While who is Worst Pony is subjective, you’re twisting around my reasoning.
 
The reason that I think that she’s Worst is because she allows herself to remain as she is, instead of improving herself or those around her. She, and she alone of the Mane Six, is not trying to improve or be the best that she can be. She does help animals, yes, but she doesn’t put any observable evidence into helping them in more or better ways, whereas even Pinkie Pie seeks more ways to make people happy.
 
Being laid back is not a bad thing. Being content with the current situation is not, in and of itself, wrong. But the others are trying to be the best that they can, which is more impressive, even if they don’t always succeed.
 
Now at this point most of your comment either totally doesn’t have to do with anything or is a pure conjecture and “what if” scenarios.
 
Everything I’ve said is based off of what I saw in the television show, even checking transcripts a couple of times.
 
For some reason, I thought that the seal in Fluttershy’s menagerie was shown jumping out of a river, which would have made more sense than just having it walk up on dry land.
 
Seriously, where did that thing live? Why did Fluttershy have a sea animal so far away from even a lake?
 
Basically you claim that Fluttershy is worst pony only because she didn’t look for a specific training for her talents (you actually don’t know she didn’t, we don’t know about much of her past).
 
Likewise, you don’t know that she does. Most of actions point against formalized training, though. Aside from not identifying Philomena’s species before attempting treatment for an unknown condition, she obtained and spread an unknown life form without any precautions, something that’s a bad idea on any level.
 
While Fluttershy’s interactions with animals are impressive, they tend to show a certain lack of… I want to say respect, but I think that “awareness of how much work they are” is a better way of putting it. While some of it can be excused by enthusiasm, a number of the animals that she suggested for Rainbow would be extremely hard for Rainbow to care for. That indicates that she isn’t completely aware of how much work it is for someone without her natural talent to take care of those animals.
 
Fluttershy doesn’t seem to be completely aware just how work animals are for other people, something that would be unlikely if she had formal training.
 
Yes, I think that Fluttershy is good enough that she never thought that she needed more training. It fits with her reluctance to seek improvement.
 
It isn’t only because she hasn’t sought out training for her talent, although that’s a large part of it. It’s because she doesn’t try to do more with her talents. More what? Anything. Everything. Form a proper woodland rescue news network made of squirrels. Train birds to carry messages. Organize the beavers into a dam building network. Form an awareness group in Ponyville for the welfare of baby manticores. Whatever.
 
Okay, she’s got a songbird choir… That’s appeared twice. She has talked to beavers to get them to move their dam… When Applejack asked her to. Both of those things show that she has potential that she isn’t living up to, and isn’t trying to live up to.
 
I don’t mind that her attempts to get over her social anxiety went badly. I do mind that she’s only tried twice.
 
Tell me more about a pony in this show that isn’t lucky and don’t make any mistakes.
 
It’s not about the failures, it’s about the attempts. Fluttershy tries to improve herself the least and the most reluctantly out of the Mane Six. Even if the others still have their failures, and they do, they’re still trying harder.
 
It’s such a irony, because you say she’s worst because she always needs help from others, but when I tell she does stuff and progresses all by herself, then you say she needs to look for help.
 
When has she actually looked for help? Asking for help is not a weakness, but she tries to avoid doing that. Her reluctance to bring up problems, especially her own, is one of her weaknesses. Asking Rarity and Pinkie Pie to help her shop from the beginning would have been a good thing.
 
I don’t have a problem with someone needing help. I do have a problem with someone needing help but not seeking it. Even when Fluttershy is aware of a problem with herself, she doesn’t try to fix it unless someone else tells her to.
 
Her concern for others is admirable, but her lack of that same concern for herself is problematic.
 
If really want to theorize about Philomena, then it is even safer to assume that if even Fluttershy didn’t recognized her as phoenix, then there’s no way there was some solid reasearch material about them. You say dragons are less known – but Fluttershy right away recognized a baby dragon when she saw one for the first time.
 
Don’t praise Fluttershy for identifying Spike too much. She don’t know that dragons could talk, after all. I’ll admit, I’m not sure why anyone would think that Spike is specifically a dragon rather than a big reptile before he says so. It isn’t like he resembles other dragons that much, or that dragons even have a consistent look, or even consistent number of limbs.
 
Anyone recognizing him as a dragon without being told is kind of weird, when you get down to it.
 
The problem is that she didn’t even try to identify Philomena’s species. I’ll admit that going from Philomena’s aged and decrepit appearance to what she normally looks like is a leap, but you’d think that Fluttershy would at least check to see if Philomena was a carnivore or not. For the record, she’s some kind of bird of prey, meaning that feeding her bird seed would not have been healthy.
 
She was indistinguishable from a featherless turkey thingy, so Fluttershy would probably didn’t recognize her even if she knew about phoenixes.
 
That’s actually my point. Fluttershy tried treatments on an animal that she didn’t recognize, meaning that she didn’t have any way of telling what treatments were correct, what effect that they were having, or what Philomena was supposed to look like healthy.
 
As you said, nothing was wrong with her, but that doesn’t change the fact that Fluttershy couldn’t figure that out, or realize that Philomena was just teasing her.
ForegroundPony
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Sjogre  
Now at this point most of your comment either totally doesn’t have to do with anything or is a pure conjecture and “what if” scenarios.
 
Basically you claim that Fluttershy is worst pony only because she didn’t look for a specific training for her talents (you actually don’t know she didn’t, we don’t know about much of her past). But that actually makes her even better pony as she simply doesn’t need this. She achieves everything all the same just by teaching herself and trying things out. Yes there was luck and making mistakes involved. Tell me more about a pony in this show that isn’t lucky and don’t make any mistakes.
 
Woulda-shoulda-coulda be better =/= worst
 
It’s such a irony, because you say she’s worst because she always needs help from others, but when I tell she does stuff and progresses all by herself, then you say she needs to look for help.
 
If really want to theorize about Philomena, then it is even safer to assume that if even Fluttershy didn’t recognized her as phoenix, then there’s no way there was some solid reasearch material about them. You say dragons are less known - but Fluttershy right away recognized a baby dragon when she saw one for the first time. It’s because Philomena did’t look like a phoenix when they met. She was indistinguishable from a featherless turkey thingy, so Fluttershy would probably didn’t recognize her even if she knew about phoenixes. Not to even mention, as Celestia said, Philomena was actually just screwing with her, not being sick.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@ForegroundPony  
And I said that, even though encouraged by friends, it was still her initiative and her will to go to Iron Will, the invitation only made her know where to go.
 
Which doesn’t change the fact that the idea to improve wasn’t her idea in the first place.
 
She didn’t ask about it because Celestia left urgently leaving the phoenix.
 
Fluttershy had the opportunity to ask before then. Short window, I’ll admit, but it was there. She also had the chance to try to identify the species herself, or ask Twilight to identify it.
 
It only stands to reason that Fluttershy is a self-taught who learns by experimenting in practice and opportunities rather than going to some kind of classes.
 
Then go to classes as well. Being taught by others as well as yourself would help, or at least illustrate what areas you’re weak in.
 
If nothing else, it would help her research skills.
 
Does it really matter if she doesn’t explicitly want to improove, if the way she solves stuff still make her consequently improove?
 
Yes. Yes it does. Things turned out well in the above cases because of good luck on her part. She could have poisoned an unfamiliar animal on accident. The problem with trial and error is that error can result in serious injuries. The advantage to formal training is that she gets the benefit of the knowledge of others, allowing her to avoid or at least limit trial and error experimentation.
 
With Philomena, she was trying treatments more or less at random, with no idea of what was actually wrong. A less durable species could have been killed by such fumbling.
 
The way that she treated the CMC was insulting and vaguely neglectful rather than outright dangerous, but still not great. She got them out of the Everfree without any permanent injury, but that was luck rather than skill at work.
 
Asking Rarity for suggestions on how to handle the fillies instead of trying to wing it would have been a better idea.
 
Yes, it is implied it’s closed to public, because why would she want to go to the gala otherwise?
 
Because a bunch of plants bloom that specific night. At most, it would be closed for the Gala. There’s still nothing stopping Twilight, who has the run of the place, from taking her on a tour whenever they want.
 
She can’t really “travel across equestria” beacuse she already has a zoo to watch over.
 
Which doesn’t actually stop her from traveling, meaning that she either has someone else watch over the place, or that the animals can take care of themselves.
 
Speaking of which I she has a seal there (also a lion and hippopotamus in comics) – proof that she actually travels about to get her animals. And actually she did travel in the show – to see the butterfly migration.
 
I never feel comfortable taking the comics as canon… Not a knock, they just don’t seem worried about fitting with canon.
 
We’ve seen a lion in Ponyville. I’m not sure if it’s an example of misplaced wildlife or if the town actually has a zoo, but I see no reason to believe that Fluttershy has traveled to collect her animals. I can’t buy her taking animals out of their environment, or see her transporting them by train or whatever for her own enjoyment.
 
When was the Butterfly migration implied to be any distance from Ponyville? Migrations are mobile by their nature, and it is not unreasonable to assume that a butterfly migration route goes through or near Ponyville.
 
The seal’s presence was just plain weird. It’s possible that the seal actually lived in the lake or rivers around Ponyville and was just at Fluttershy’s cottage to audition for Rainbow Dash, but seals generally live in the ocean. If she was keeping a seal in a pool at her cottage, that throws her competency into question.
 
Much like there wasn’t Harry around, and then, since Lesson Zero she lives with him, a goes to picnics with him.
 
Harry doesn’t live with her. He’s got his own home in the forest. Not all of the animals that Fluttershy is seen with live with her.
 
While Fluttershy likes working with animals, her services don’t seem to be actually vital to them.
 
It only stands to reason that Fluttershy is a self-taught who learns by experimenting in practice and opportunities rather than going to some kind of classes.
 
Because Philomena was an unusual specie, no usual training would allow her to take care of, much like a Ponyville’s vet didn’t know how to take care of a dragon. She don’t have problems with normal animals like nursing mouses or massaging bears, so seeking help of a vet is pretty pointless.
 
Spike is explicitly unique, hence the lack of research material. Philomena and phoenixes, on the other limb, have been around long enough for Celestia to know how they work, making it very likely that research materials for them exists.
 
It wasn’t simple that she didn’t recognize Philomena or realize what was wrong, it was that she didn’t try to rectify either of those problems.
 
Saying that she only needs help for exotic animals still means that she needs help when it comes to exotic ones. Proper training would at least mean that she knows what kind of questions to ask when she runs into something that she doesn’t recognize.
 
If you read comics, Fluttershy now posesses almost encyclopedic knowedgle of all kinds of unusual mythical species.
 
Again, never sure if I should take them as canon…
 
I read that scene, and it came across as Fluttershy having encountered those things before rather than having read about them.
 
As you yourself said, Fluttershy is more the type to hang out with animals than study it out of books.
ForegroundPony
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Sjogre  
I… What? I said that Fluttershy never decided to improve herself on her own, and she didn’t. Her friends told her that she needed to be more assertive. I said that she didn’t go looking for a teacher, and she didn’t. She followed a pamphlet that was dropped in her mail, rather than trying to find a solution on her own. Like asking for help from her other friends, trying to be more assertive on her own, or even asking around to try and find out if Iron Will was any good.
 
And I said that, even though encouraged by friends, it was still her initiative and her will to go to Iron Will, the invitation only made her know where to go. Siezing an oportunity is also an initiative. She needed encouragement because like I said before her inheritent shyness makes things twice as harder for her, but in the end she still did that all the same. It was only luck that she found that poster. That was just how that episode was constructed, the writers at that point might as well make her seek something by herself.
 
 
Most obviously, she should have just asked Celestia about her bird rather than just grabbing Philomena. It was important to Fluttershy, but she still didn’t put forth the effort of asking anything.  
[..]  
Incidentally, both of these incidents were examples of Fluttershy getting in over her head, which wouldn’t have happened if she had taken the time to improve her talents. She didn’t know what kind of animal Philomena was, and therefore didn’t know how to take care of her, and she assumed that her talent with animals translated to talent with children. Which, frankly, is pretty insulting.

 
She didn’t ask about it because Celestia left urgently leaving the phoenix.  
She had her problems with Philomena and CMC, but in the end she still learned about phoenixes and taking care of little fillies instead of animals - that’s your improvement, right there. It only stands to reason that Fluttershy is a self-taught who learns by experimenting in practice and opportunities rather than going to some kind of classes. It wasn’t exactly out of explicit urge to improove herself, but still out of passion and devotion to the subject, therefore she improoved involuntary - that’s exactly how self-taughts work and progress. Does it really matter if she doesn’t explicitly want to improove, if the way she solves stuff still make her consequently improove?
 
They were right in fron of her, but they wasn’t proposted to her. It was her initiative to take opportunity and try them out.
 
 
Aside from the fact that this isn’t an example of self-improvement… What’s stopping Fluttershy from going to a zoo on her own? I don’t recall anyone anywhere ever implying that the Canterlot Gardens were closed to the public, but what was stopping her from asking Twilight to take her on a trip to the castle even if they were?
 
What’s stopping her from traveling Equestria to see all the wildlife on her own?
 
^Most of that is related to lazy wrinting, not Fluttershy’s drive. Yes, it is implied it’s closed to public, because why would she want to go to the gala otherwise?  
She can’t really “travel across equestria” beacuse she already has a zoo to watch over. Speaking of which I she has a seal there (also a lion and hippopotamus in comics) - proof that she actually travels about to get her animals. And actually she did travel in the show - to see the butterfly migration. She does ‘expand’ in her way, every time we see some new animal around her cottage. Much like there wasn’t Harry around, and then, since Lesson Zero she lives with him, a goes to picnics with him.
 
 
Highly unlikely. When she kidnapped Philomena, she was unable to tell what was wrong, nor did she try to actually figure out what was bothering her. She never even tried to identify species, with the result that she was unaware of what kind of bird Philomena was, and therefore what kind of food she ate, what temperature she should be, and so on.
 
The incident with Philomena is actually a good example of why she should get real training. She has a great deal of natural talent, but it’s pure arrogance to assume that talent alone will be enough.
 
Because Philomena was an unusual specie, no usual training would allow her to take care of, much like a Ponyville’s vet didn’t know how to take care of a dragon. She don’t have problems with normal animals like nursing mouses or massaging bears, so seeking help of a vet is pretty pointless. In the end of course Fluttershy leared about phoenixes all the same. If you read comics, Fluttershy now posesses almost encyclopedic knowedgle of all kinds of unusual mythical species.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@TheMangoPony  
Really? I’d have expected “eep,” myself.
TheMangoPony

My response to the comment section, in the words of Fluttershy:
 
Oh…my
Background Pony #5B88
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@ForegroundPony  
If it was like you’re saying, she’d waited for her friends to invite Iron Will right to her door.
 
I… What? I said that Fluttershy never decided to improve herself on her own, and she didn’t. Her friends told her that she needed to be more assertive. I said that she didn’t go looking for a teacher, and she didn’t. She followed a pamphlet that was dropped in her mail, rather than trying to find a solution on her own. Like asking for help from her other friends, trying to be more assertive on her own, or even asking around to try and find out if Iron Will was any good.
 
Fluttershy is on the reclusive side, but she’s far from being a basement dweller. She does her own shopping, after all. Why would she lurk in her house while her friends brought the world to her?
 
She didn’t wait till’ Celestia asked her to nurse Philomena. She commited a crime, and stole her herself. Same with CMC – Fluttershy proposed taking care of them from Rarity.
 
My specific complaint was that Fluttershy doesn’t try to improve herself, not that she doesn’t use her talents. She has empathy, but poor social skills and makes no attempt to better them of her own choice.
 
Most obviously, she should have just asked Celestia about her bird rather than just grabbing Philomena. It was important to Fluttershy, but she still didn’t put forth the effort of asking anything.
 
The incidents with Philomena and the Crusaders were both right in front of her, rather than her seeking out unusual animals to learn about or kids to take care of.
 
Incidentally, both of these incidents were examples of Fluttershy getting in over her head, which wouldn’t have happened if she had taken the time to improve her talents. She didn’t know what kind of animal Philomena was, and therefore didn’t know how to take care of her, and she assumed that her talent with animals translated to talent with children. Which, frankly, is pretty insulting.
 
And it was her initiatove to go to Grand Galloping Gala to see the gardens (but before Twilight she simply didn’t have means to go there and it was a mere luck that all her friends also wanted to go there).
 
Aside from the fact that this isn’t an example of self-improvement… What’s stopping Fluttershy from going to a zoo on her own? I don’t recall anyone anywhere ever implying that the Canterlot Gardens were closed to the public, but what was stopping her from asking Twilight to take her on a trip to the castle even if they were?
 
What’s stopping her from traveling Equestria to see all the wildlife on her own?
 
(she’s already capable of nursing injured animal, anyway – maybe she already took a class in it??)
 
Highly unlikely. When she kidnapped Philomena, she was unable to tell what was wrong, nor did she try to actually figure out what was bothering her. She never even tried to identify species, with the result that she was unaware of what kind of bird Philomena was, and therefore what kind of food she ate, what temperature she should be, and so on.
 
The incident with Philomena is actually a good example of why she should get real training. She has a great deal of natural talent, but it’s pure arrogance to assume that talent alone will be enough.
 
Becoming a vet would mean she would have to take ponies with patiens and live nearer the town, which would drove her away from watching over a freaking zoo around her house.
 
Or she could help the existing vet, taking time between helping the pets in town and the ones outside, as well as spending time with her own menagerie. The episode where she gave Rainbow Dash a turtle strongly implies that she also runs a pet adoption service, and having more ties with the ponies in town would help her give out pets.
 
There’s an element of triage in this as well. Being in town would allow other ponies to help her decide what animals need her help the most, rather than just wandering around. More ties in town would also give her more help outside of it.
 
Fluttershy has her good points, but that doesn’t change the fact that she’s coasting, while the others do more with themselves.
ForegroundPony
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Sjogre  
No, what she does is still taking initiatives. She simply deosn’t go too distant lenghts (and frankly doesn’t need too) to search for them, but that deosn’t mean she isnt trying, because she still actively siezes opportunities. If it was like you’re saying, she’d waited for her friends to invite Iron Will right to her door. It was her whe went to the meeting by herself. She didn’t wait till’ Celestia asked her to nurse Philomena. She commited a crime, and stole her herself. Same with CMC - Fluttershy proposed taking care of them from Rarity. And it was her initiatove to go to Grand Galloping Gala to see the gardens (but before Twilight she simply didn’t have means to go there and it was a mere luck that all her friends also wanted to go there).
 
She does spend time in the wilderness, because guess what - that’s where the animals are.
 
A vet isn’t exactly the same as animal caretaker (she’s already capable of nursing injured animal, anyway - maybe she already took a class in it??). Becoming a vet would mean she would have to take ponies with patiens and live nearer the town, which would drove her away from watching over a freaking zoo around her house. Ironically she doesnt wait for ponies to give her their pets to nurse. She by herself takes intiative to help animals, either a fieldmouse with broken bones, a bear with tesion in his shoulder, a family of ducks that needs to be guided across the Ponyville roade or a overpopulated frogs that need to batken to the distant bog.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

  1. All of the stuff that I mentioned happened on screen.
     
    Fluttershy’s shyness is orthogonal to her talents with animals, and completely irrelevant to her decision to not do more with it.
     
    Unlike Pinkie, who has nearly non-existent people skills and is apparently incapable of reading others, Fluttershy doesn’t try to get past her own weaknesses until someone else tells her to.
     
    Twilight had to be forced to seek the company of others, but she actually kept at it instead of putting forth the most grudging of attempts.
     
  2. She didn’t try to improve herself until others told her that she needed to. Saying that Fluttershy merely failed to avoid it was a bit harsh, but saying that she took her own initiative in improving herself is just plain a lie.
     
    Remember, her friends told her that she needed to be more assertive at the beginning of the episode, and even tried to give her lessons.
     
  3. Philomena was right in front of her, as were the CMC. She’s never gone looking for people or animals to help, at most spending time in the woods near her house, away from people.
     
    I find it important that she’s not actually a vet, which would make her more capable of caring for animals and would even bring her more animals in need of help.
     
  4. Yes…? I never said that she wouldn’t try to help her friends, just that she doesn’t take initiative on her own.
     
    While Fluttershy isn’t my favorite, I don’t particularly dislike her, either. The thing is, she isn’t simply failing to live up to her potential, she’s not even trying to. I consider her rejection of trying to be all that she could be a terrible attribute. For anyone.
     
    Hence, Worst Pony.
ForegroundPony
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

  1. Off-screen stuff. The way you’re putting it, I can also say that about Fluttershy “She’s constanty out of her way to met new animals, ant takes her responsibility tame and take care of them thus learning new methods”. I admit it may look uncomparable, but that’s only becuse the nature of her work which may seem trivial. She doesn’t really need to “expand”, I’m even surprised she can leave her cottage for longer as basically has a small zoo there.
     
    Her talents came out of natural talent, but at the same her shyness - a hinderance of her talents also seem to be inheritant. Wihch means every struggle she needs to deal with is twice as hard to her - as she must fight with both the struggle and herself. But even so she almost always succeds when it matters to her, which shows how much drive she can have.
     
  2. Don’t conject stuff. She’s didn’t do that because she was too affraid to refuse, nor just because an invitation fell on her face - if that was the case, she’d stay in her cottage waiting for to come there - but she herself went to the labirynth. She rejected them - which only show how she began to stood for herself more - but she did change. That is proved in Dragonquest and KKaFO and few minor occasions. She didn’t stopped to be shy and meek entirely, but I don’t want her to - that’s the charm of her character (And like any other she sometimes suffer from inconsitent writing).
     
  3. Not true. Philomena came around, but seeing how miserable she was, Fluttershy actually STOLE a pet from the ruler of the country just because she wanted to nurse her good. She volotierd herself to take care of CMC. Also Grand Galloping Gala - she wanted to got there, a public event which she hates just because she wanted to see Canterlot Gardens and all the new species.
     
  4. The thing is, even if she must be asked first, she still tries hard to do her best, even if it means doing what she hates. That was my point in this one.
Yoksven
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

For everyone involved into arguing, I’m just gonna leave it here:  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cf8SY_Kj20  
And for everyone else aslo. I think it’s quite fitting.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

  1. Pinkie has gone out of her way to meet new ponies, and tried new activities with them. Most obviously, getting Rainbow to go pranking with her. There’s also the fact that she doesn’t seem to have any inherent talent at making people happy, meaning that she relies solely on hard work for it. Applejack has trained for competitions, as well as going out of her way to take on more responsibilities than simple farming apples, and tries to take on larger tasks around the farm as well. Rarity is constantly trying new designs as well as trying to expand her business.
     
    Fluttershy hasn’t really done anything comparable.
     
  2. The assertiveness lessons that she ultimately rejected? The ones that she only took when an invitation fell in her lap? The ones that she only took after her friends told her that she needed to be more assertive? She was too much of a doormat to turn them down.
     
    She’s never looked for any opportunity to improve herself, merely failed to run away from them.
     
  3. She never went looking for any of them, merely reacting as they came around. Discord was specifically a duty assigned to her, rather than a duty that she sought out.
     
  4. When Rainbow Dash asked for her help, not because she actually wanted to. In and of herself, she would have continued to let her social anxiety rule her life.
     
    Fluttershy does have her good points, but drive isn’t one of them.
ForegroundPony
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

  1. I never saw Pinkie trying to “find new ways to have fun”. (I think there was something in Comics Pinkie Pie Micro - Karma’s a bitch) Your dectription of Fluttershy would fit Pinkie. Actually I only saw Twilight and Rainbow Dash actually using some training and improoving their talents. Rarity was alsways the same good fashonista and tailor. Applejack always the same apple bucker. They’re really not so different than Fluttershy.
     
  2. How about assertivness lessons so Angel stop treating her like pushover? Since then I never saw Angel being jerk to her again, at least not as much as in Dragonshy and Putting Your Hoof Down.
     
  3. She did actually try taking care of new species - Philomena, Discord and Cutie Mark Crusaders in The Stare Master.
     
  4. There was als her flight complex she strived to overcome in Hurricane Fluttershy.
Background Pony #E416
I maintained a completely blank expression while looking at this for about 2 minutes. Is that bad?
Whatevo
Thread Starter - The great GamerGate discussion.
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

Arch-Rarifag
@Keith Mowz  
Coming from a guy who doesnt watch the show. Lel.  
Havin the shy introvert succeed without trying as the resolution is a common trope. Think.
Sjogre
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Keith Mowz  
She’s not even putting herself in the race. She’s abstaining from competing.
 
@ForegroundPony  
I can never bring myself to take the comics as canon… Not a knock on them, and I personally would find it more interesting if they took the opportunity to diverge from the show.
 
Anyway, she doesn’t seem to put any effort into improving her talents. They are impressive, yes, but she never tries to make them better. She’s gotten more practice with animals, but she’s never tried to push her abilities with them to the limits, and never really tried to learn to control the stare. Compare that to everyone else, who is constantly trying to improve herself.
 
Even Pinkie tries to find new ways to have fun and brighten others’ days, whereas Fluttershy doesn’t go out of her way to meet new animals. and doesn’t seem to have even bothered to get actual veterinarian training.
 
She’s coasting on natural ability. That’s not a positive trait, it’s just laziness.
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The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

The Fluffiest
@Sjogre  
Dafuq you talking about? She doesn’t just try, she succeeds. With much less effort on her part than the other ponies do. She doesn’t struggle with her talent whatsoever. She’s simply a master caretaker of animals.
Sassafrass

Sjorge what the fuck are you talking about? Seriously.
Kerion

‘Hugs her’ ^^ May not be best pony to me, I just can’t resist how cute she is.