(NSFW) Rule #5

So going off of what mod has messaged before, supposedly you can’t report an image for violating Rule #5 based on it’s source tags, but I have done it before then and it was allowed. This is pertaining to >>1699544 (deleted), >>1974977, and >>1974980. I’m wondering if this rule is enforced anymore, and if so, then how, if we’re not going off of the tags the artist placed there themselves? Note that all are tagged with loli and shota in their sources.

 
You totally can report images based on their source tags if you think the image is Rule #5, but we’ll make up our own minds about whether it actually is Rule #5 or not. Either way, you should be reporting an image for Rule #5 based on your assessment of the image here on this site - not based on what someone else said about the image on some other site. Even if that person was the artist.
 
And, yes, Rule #5 is still enforced.
 
When there is disagreement about the facts of an image, such as whether an image is shipping, the artist’s intent does take precedence. However, we do not take the artist’s word for whether an image depicts sexual situations involving underage human or humanlike characters. That’s something that we have to decide for ourselves, since we’re the ones who will answer for hosting it.

@Derpy Whooves  

 
But that feels really flawed since it’ll lead to people saying “You let their’s in, so why was mine removed?” Also having it be based on a person’s feelings on it leaves it incredibly open to biases, some mods letting some art through because they like it

@Background Pony #CCE5  
That can happen.
 
This is, after all, a fan site run by volunteers.
 
But if it’s “Anthro, Foalcon”, then we delete it. And the dispute of course, as always, is “What constitutes Anthro?” and “What constitutes Foalcon?”
 
In the end, we have to decide what we are willing to host.
 
There’s just some images that we’d rather not host.
 
In the case of Rule #5, a lot of that falls into the “Because none of us want to go to lose the site, and go to jail over this” category.
 
So, we’re “better safe than sorry”.

@Derpy Whooves  

 
I guess I can sort of see why the Spike ones wouldn’t be deleted since you could argue that any pornographic art of him is anthro and foalcon (unless aged up or dog), which would wipe out most of Saurian’s art. Is there anything specifically that’d be recommended to look out for with Spike art then, besides human, that could make it violate Rule #5?

@Background Pony #CCE5  
Spike is difficult, because of how things are handled “in the general case”.
 
I mean, Spike is kind of the worse possible example.
 
Spike is “underage” in canon, and certainly in how he’s drawn in the show. But he’s also a dog in EQG, so any images depicting Spike having sex with literally any of the human-like characters in EQG runs afoul of the problem that, as a dragon, he’s “supposedly underage”, and if he’s not a dragon then he’s a dog, so that’s “some sort of bestiality”, and if he’s drawn anthro then we’re completely in the “or something”.
 
It’s not easy, and with Spike the only general guideline we have is that it’s foalcon. Now if he’s anthro then everything is broken.
 
So, we look at each image case by case.

I’m sorry guys but the whole thing about explicit images of spike and smolder getting deleted for rule #5 is complete bullshit because the only thing I’ve seen from rule #5 is no humans or anthros which spike and smolder don’t even resemble a human or an anthro what’s so ever and that’s why I’m protesting about it because they need to stop that if they don’t want porn of humans or anthros then that’s fine but spike and smolder are none of those they’re literally full blooded dragons with scales, fangs, wings, etc. and the most annoying part is that sometimes they even keep some of these explicit images of spike and smolder. So why do a lot of explicit images of these two characters get deleted when literally half of the site is filled with explicit images of spike and smolder?

@Undead dragon soldier  

 

@Ciaran  
It is see for yourself.  
spike
 
smolder

@Undead dragon soldier  

 

 
And that’s Spike, it’s even lower for Smolder.

Smolder+Explicit+Foalcon = 126 images.  
Spike+Explicit+Foalcon = 2619 images, and only 760 of those weren’t grandfathered in from before the “September” change.
 
So, 886 images. That’s only 6% of the Explicit+Foalcon images.
 
When did 886 become “literally half” of 1,936,894?
 
@LightningBolt  
Sorry, missed your reply. Didn’t mean to double post. Was too busy having fun with math :)

@Ciaran  
Okay then a majority of the site.

@Undead dragon soldier  
Did you skip my post.

@Undead dragon soldier  
6% is not a majority of the “explicit,foalcon” images.
 
886 is not a “majority” of 1,936,894.
 
What point are you trying to make?
 
@LightningBolt  
Sorry - you’ve got this and I’m not helping. I really only came here because this is a continuation of an argument from a different part of the site. I’ll go play video games ^__^

@LightningBolt  
No I read it.
 
 
@Ciaran  
The point is that there’s a lot of explicit images of spike and smolder on the site.

@Undead dragon soldier  
We’ve stated elsewhere when this topic comes up. Yes, Spike [and Smoulder] are a large head-ache where rule 5 is concerned.  
Yes. Spike is a Dragon. The problem is he’s a dragon who walks on two legs and can range from “really human like” to “basically show accurate” depending on each artist’s individual styles.
 
Examples being:  

 
So for Sexual content involving Spike we unfortunately have a level of subjectivity. Essentially: “Is this too human looking?”
 
You could make the argument that it’s easier to just ban all Spike content that’s sexual in nature. But we’d rather keep what art we can so we remove what we feel is too far over the line.
 
Yes it’s subjective and inaccurate when Spike is involved. But that’s just the way it is.  
We can allow it all and risk legal action.  
We can ban it all and have none of the artwork.  
Or we can leave what we feel is safest and only remove what we believe is legally dubious.
 
We know it’s annoying when an image is deleted when you think it should be ok. And in many cases you can come by Discord #Support and talk to us about it and ask why we thought it had to be removed.
 
We’re sorry it’s an annoyance, but it’s what we must do to stay on the safe side.

@Zeb  
Just keep it like it is.
 
I think we should at least have a forum where we first ask if an image breaks rule #5 or not

@Undead dragon soldier  
That would take a massive amount of time. As well as entirely defeat the purpose of us removing the images in the first place: Us not being safe hosting them.
 
If we think an image isn’t safe to host, putting it up in the forums for days would not be in our best interests.
 
And what do you mean by “Just keep it like it is.” ? Doing what we’re already doing without changing anything?

@Zeb  
Yeah, don’t change anything.
 
That’s what I meant.

I mean, the whole thing with Smoulder is also dubious, so much of porn with the Young 6 not having a “foalcon” tag since it isn’t clear what age group they’re a part of. It’d kind of be nice if site staff decided the default tags for them, if they haven’t already. Also, after talking with an artist, I realized an issue with the system being this subjective, which is that body types that adults can have can be flagged as under aged and taken down, especially if the person they’re with is larger than them. Just, it’s frustrating that rather than look at the track record of artists, the places they have uploaded it, and the tags they have used for it, staff would rather just go off of one person’s assessment on one image, which depending on the person, can be incredibly biased.

@Background Pony #CCE5  
We aren’t now, and never have been, going off of “one person’s assessment”. We might have a dozen or more staff members looking at some of these before a decision is made. Sometimes we all agree, sometimes we don’t all agree. But it’s never ever one person’s call, unless that one person is the person who is legally responsible for the site and is the one whose door the police will be knocking on.

@Derpy Whooves  
Quick question:What happened? Whenever I went to the staff list you weren’t there for awhile but now you are again. I’m confused.

@Undead dragon soldier  
We’re all just volunteers here, and everyone takes vacations.

@Derpy Whooves  
Ah, I apologize for getting that wrong.  
Couldn’t Spike and Smoulder art get grouped into anthro though when he has human hands, since that’s very humanish for something that already had opposable thumbs?

@Background Pony #CCE5  
As far as I can see, only one image that is “Spike,Smolder,explicit” has ever been deleted for Rule #5. One image doesn’t seem like such a problem that’s worth re-writing rules. I’m not saying Rule #5 is fine as it is, but this current hoopla is over just one image.