Down with Molestia

ender1200
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@Carcer  
In other words: If you want to change society sell your change, persuade people that what you want is better than what is. when people disagree first ask yourself if it’s you who made a bad argument.  
If you tell people that they are your enemies than they will fight a against you.
 
As for rape couture. It’s a problem, a big one that we should fight against. Though I really doubt that APM or even the molestia meme are part of it. The major way rape couture presents itself in the western society is in victim blaming as @Carcer pointed out. (you could make the case that the idea that every man is entitled to a woman, and that a man’s success is measured by amount of sex they have, being part of rape culture when people find that reality isn’t as generous, driving some to violent backlash.)  
As far as I’m aware neither APM nor the meme advocate seeing the victims as responsible for being raped. (or perpetuating the “only looser don’t have a hot GF” myth)
 
@Background Pony  
Rape culture is thankfully neither homogeneous nor absolute. Many people are seeing rape as a crime perpetuated by the rapist and understand that like in cases of robbery and murder we must go after the criminal.  
That being said cases where the investigation or the triel are dismissed because the victim was drunk, dressed “provocatively” or had active sex life prior are still depressingly common. The idea that “she asked for this” or that the victim didn’t do enough to protect themselves still comes up nearly every rape investigation. Remember rape is a crime many victim choose not to report out of fear of the repercussions of reporting it.
cb5
Thread Starter - The time wasting thread

@cb5
A big part of what the common idea of rape culture is is that we shame the victims of rape and focus our efforts on telling them not to get raped in various ways rather than targeting the people committing the crimes in the first place. Explicitly telling people not to rape rather than focusing all your efforts on telling people not to be raped is the sort of change that most activists opposing the rape culture want to see, and generally they’re trying to make changes that stop society shaming the victims and make society more overtly against people committing rape. Sometimes their efforts are misguided and they rail against the wrong targets but in general that’s what they’re trying to do.
 
You know what’s the irony of this? The easiest way to accomplish this goal would to be get in contact with victim shelters/nonprofit organizations/any company really that has some sort of advertising campaign against rape and call up their ceo’s or head people and ask them to change their advertising strategy.
 
I recently graduated with a advertising degree and let me just say it’s not that hard to do. The people low on the ladder when it comes to a business tend to not listen cause they tend to just be some person doing their job, but if you get a hold of the higher ups and go “Hello I am <insert name here> I would like to talk to you about <insert ad campaign here>” sure getting a hold of them is hard cause the people lower on the chain of command don’t want to get in trouble, but the higher up you go the more likely they are to listen.
 
Also when it comes to advertising it’s not that hard to change the body copy of a ad. It takes about a hour to make sure everything is good and dandy in the new ad, the only real problem is the costs for printing the new ad. If the people have already printed it and such the best strategy is to get a hold of the higher ups and phrase it to where future ad campaigns will feature the change.
 
The reason why so many people fail at accomplishing this is that in order to get a hold of the higher ups and to talk to them about changes to their future ad campaigns against rape to change it from “don’t get raped” to “don’t rape” is that you NEED to be courteous and as well as know how to talk to them and get them to reconsider.
 
For example if I was talking to a ceo of a company and I was doing their advertisement I would go, “Greetings am I speaking with <insert name here>? Oh I am. Hi my name is <my real name here>. I am from <insert company here> and your company recently commissioned us to do a advertisement for you. Right, yeah that’s us. I was calling about a couple of ideas I had for the advertisement that would make it easier to read and such. Oh no nothing is really wrong with it. I was just thinking about that it would be kind of hard for drivers to read all that going 70mph. Oh no I don’t mean it like that, in fact I think the design is simply marvelous, rather I don’t want to drivers to get in a wreck reading it. Well shortening the message would certainly help, but I was thinking about giving it a extra kick to the message so people remember it. Well that would certainly work, how about creating a catchy headline that the reader would remember even if they don’t read the rest? Eh, I’m not too sure about that one. It’s too long. I was thinking like two words at most. I know your idea is too long. What idea do I have? I brainstormed a bit earlier and came up with, “Don’t rape” now I know it’s not the slogan you wanted, but I think it puts forth the same idea you wanted in only two words. Yeah I know it’s only two words, but even if someone glances over it for half a second they’ll remember the billboard and see your logo and thus remember it. Okay I’ll do that right away. Thank you for your time sir/madame, and hope to do further business with you”
 
The reason why it’s so hard for other people to get stuff done and change ad campaigns and such is simply put people like pinkponie when they call up a company to change a anti-rape psa their complaint gets put in the shredder.
 
Rule of thumb when trying to get a higher up to listen to you, the nicer you are and the more you suggest that your idea is their idea just “spruced up” and more memorable the more likely they are to listen.
 
Unfortunately far too many people call in and go, “Fuck you man I want to file a complaint about your stupid ass fucker company. Get your ceo before I call my lawyer” and well that complaint goes right into the shredder as soon as the call is done.
 
TL:DR; One of the biggest problems is that so many people that do try to change mass media messages deserve a gold medal in stupidity cause most of the calls are by people thinking swearing and threatening a lawsuit actually gets people to listen.
Efrath
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

I honestly believe that the rape culture theory is flawed and that the biggest source of the problem lies in women sexuality still being outdated even today as well as the fact that women still are viewed as frail, innocent victims. What I find incredibly sad is how a lot of “Social justice warriors” and some parts of feminism keeps promoting the stereotype of women as frail victims.
 
Women are still viewed and expected to be innocent, sensitive and not have sex very often. This in my opinion is the true main reason as to why victim blaming happens as well as increasing the pain and trauma for victims themselves.
 
I mean, if your sexuality is seen as something important, sacred even (Be it consciously or subconsciously), it’s not natural that you’ll feel all the more violated and shamed when it’s forced upon you. It’s an opinion and angle I’ve held for a long time but one that some people sometimes take great offence at because it can imply that rape isn’t as terrible as they think it is.
 
What do I think when people get angry for me for such reasons? Why the fuck does it matter how “Terrible” something is? What is this? Some fucking piss-poor, moronic contest on which crime and experience that is the worst a human can experience? Are you so fucking stuck up and have a stick so far up your ass that you don’t even want to consider a possibility that might reduce the pain and trauma a victim goes trough? How the fuck can you be so selfish?
 
What we need is sex-education and good sex-education too that teaches both the dangers and pleasures of sex but also say that yeah, you can fuck as much as you want if you like but that there’s no shame in having lots of sex nor is it having no sex. It’s your life, your decisions but you must also know of the possible risks.. Parents need to teach this too and honestly, it’s parents, which includes both mothers and fathers, that holds a big responsibility in this.
 
It’s not TV, it’s not games, it’s not books or movies. At best it can influence us, but only if the opinion and views already exists in our minds. If I and several of my friends can play violent videogames, see horror movies and know of sex as a young kid while still growing up to be an adult whom cares more than he should about others, avoids violence at any cost and feel sympathy for victims, I sure as hell am sure everyone else can too.
 
Because you know what? We learn quickly that what we read, see and play is fiction. Kids aren’t stupid. Sure, they can be stupid in some manner of ways (Look at the CMC) but goddamn, they can handle the truth and reality of the world. You’re not doing them any favours by shielding them too much. It’s good to let kids be kids, but guess what, they’ll still be kids even if they are taught what sex, death and violence is. Heck, they’ll probably be much more careful and responsible, because you can’t know the importance of life unless you know what death is.
 
Now, let’s continue with rape. What is rape? That is something that needs to be debated too, because heck, the definition is still blurry for a lot of people and it’s gone to the extreme at times, to the point where personal responsibility matters less and less.
 
So, let’s say a woman got drunk, she had consensual sex and then regretted it afterwards. Or just regretted a fuck afterwards even while sober.
 
No, this aint rape, I refuse to say it’s rape and I think it’s an insult and a slap to the face to the victims of actual rape. On top of that, it overcomplicates things because what if men started to do the same? Because I can assure you, there’s pleeeenty of men out there that probably has regretted fucking some girl/man the day after.
 
It’s sex, people and just like anything else, you sometimes make mistakes. Like fuck, I put too much pepper into my sauce and it tastes awful.
 
Doesn’t mean I have to punch my bottle of hot sauce, even if it would be hilarious.
 
But it’s not only that, it’s a complex issue and there’s plenty of grey lines,believe me. Such as when your partner is nagging at you to have sex and you’re like “SIGH, FINE”. Nope, aint rape in my book. Sure, he/she might be an ass for nagging and complaining til you caved in, but you know what? We all do stuff reluctantly plenty of times.
 
Like paying back a loan. Man, I don’t want to do this, but I did agree upon it when I took the loan. Now, a no is a no of course, if someone forces themselves upon you when you clearly are saying no, it’s rape. It’s a crime, but it doesn’t have to be a horrible, traumatic experience. Heck, it can even be something that couples can talk about and overcome. I know that does sound horrible of me to say, but see, it’s a couple. I’m not saying it can’t be terrible, on the contrary it most likely is a horrible experience when it happens for most people, even more so as it’s a partner whom you’re supposed to trust.
 
But in other cases, it might be more that while the partner said no, he or she isn’t completely against the idea against having sex. I know, horrible thought again and I really don’t think it’s something that happens very often, but my point is that it’s not black and white and that people are people with choices. She or he, while a victim, might not necessarily be traumatized and have a scar on his/her soul just because rape happened, It’s still of course a crime and even if she/he isn’t traumatized, it’s in his/her full right to report it to the authorities. Just because the thing I lost to a thief is something I don’t really care about doesn’t mean I can’t report it to the police. Still a crime after all. But perhaps it was someone I know or perhaps I simply just don’t give a shit? In any case, I’m not a horrible human being nor am I someone you must come to my rescue and “Make me understand” just because I decide not to report it.
 
 
There’s so many aspects and angles to look at this and I don’t think it’s good to keep viewing and promoting rape as the worst horrible experience any human being can go trough. Honestly, you’re not exactly making it any easier for the victim to recover by basically saying that you’d be better off dead than to be raped.
 
Treat victims as human beings, not as victims. You don’t have to shield them from everything and you’re not necessarily helping them by shielding them from things that might cause harm to them. What any traumatized victim needs is support and help to overcome and put these things past them so that they can live a happy, normal life once more. It might not always work, it might be nigh impossible for some to overcome their trauma,.. But it sure as hell beats trying to shield them and keep them imprisoned in their little bubble of self-loathing, shame, regret and pain.
 
Sorry for the longass ranting.
Carcer
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@Efrath  
I believe there’s a bit more of a burden of consent than that - it’s not enough to say “well they didn’t say no” but it should be the case that they explicitly said yes. Getting people to be more open and informed about sex, including teaching people to actually make sure that everyone involved really wants to do the sex, can only improve the situation. It promotes more respectful relationships and gives people more confidence to say no when they really don’t want to.
 
You’re right that there are a lot of grey areas when it comes to how you’d actually define rape, but in most cases if you have to start arguing about whether something is technically rape or not it’s most certainly still really scummy behaviour and should be discouraged culturally, if not legally. Badgering a person until they finally give in to your sexual demands may not fulfill some definitions of rape but it’s still something you really ought not to do (this circumstance is especially dodgy because depending on the situation it can often be the case that a person feels physically or otherwise intimidated by the other and the consent given is, effectively, coerced, even if the demander is not overtly threatening). Sex isn’t really something that should be done reluctantly. We also consider deliberately plying people with alcohol or other drugs in order to get them to consent to be a kind of rape - people sufficiently intoxicated or under whatever influence are considered not able to give informed consent by diminished capacity and if you take advantage of a person in that state in order to get sex, a lot of places consider that rape and even if you consider the technicality debatable it’s still something that you really ought not to be doing.
 
I do fully agree that when it comes to the victims of rape we tend to have a kind of negative feedback loop reinforcement going, which I feel is especially dangerous in cases of child abuse. When everything tells you and everyone around you acts like you’ve just experienced the worst thing ever and that you should be scarred for life, you’re going to end up conforming to those expectations and suffering for it. I don’t mean to belittle the trauma that any victim has gone through - certainly many people are susceptible enough or simply had an experience so harrowing that they don’t need any outside help to suffer in the way that they have. But likewise, I find it very likely that there are many cases out there where the stigma and and extreme response to cases of rape have hindered the recovery of victims and indeed made them feel much worse than they might otherwise have done about the whole ordeal.
 
Generally speaking, of course, many of these issues would be alleviating by removing our ridiculous cultural stigma against women actually having sex. If we no longer have this ritualised game of “playing hard to get” which many women participate in and men are trained to expect to have to overcome, the murkiness in the waters of informed consent is considerably cleared up. No should mean no - training people to expect that no actually means yes, eventually, or saying no because of some stupid cultural expectation that you should even if you actually want to say yes, is a significant problem in this area of our culture, and is undoubtedly responsible for many sexual assaults and rapes. It can be difficult to get someone to understand that you actually mean no if they’ve been trained to believe that when you say no you’re just being “hard to get”, especially if they’re somewhat drunk or something, and especially if they’re intimidating in a way that makes you fear protesting too much (which doesn’t have to be deliberate at all - a big drunk guy can feel plenty threatening to people who have to deal with him even if he doesn’t mean to be or realise he is). And guess what - this whole issue is a part of what people consider to be rape culture (explicitly, our culture around this issue is conducive to and results in rapes and sexual assaults). It’s not all about bad jokes and yelling names at people.
Princess♠Molestia
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@Grieffon  
Assuming that those posts aren’t complete garbage (gonna say at least 50 % chance they were)
 
Then DWM was led by…well, I don’t like to insult so I’ll just say someone who should not be leading a movement. That’s…disturbing.
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@Grieffon  
Dang.
 
The girl has quite a bit of mental issues it seems. Refuses to work, spreads lies, is a a attention freak, doesn’t really have much grasp on how the world works, and has some sort of vendetta against the Bronies… is she on meds?
Princess♠Molestia
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After looking at that guy’s tumblr, and the fact that people are being complete jerks to him, my hatred for this whole movement has grown to the point where I would probably be banned if I expressed it.
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@Princess♠Molestia  
Do realize that she treats her tumblr the same way normal people treat their mouths; that is, she seems to type out and post everything that comes to mind, whether it makes sense, is legible beneficial or not.
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@Princess♠Molestia  
Look at all of the things she said, all of the claims she made, and how she tried to lead a vendetta against people she hated under the guise of a social progress movement. Does it sound like she’s a reasonable, level headed person who thinks before acting?
 
The only loss from all of this is artists who saw any opposition to the movement as supportive of rapists, especially on Derpibooru, adding themselves to DNP lists and painting those who might have possibly agreed with them if they were less driven by emotion as awful scum unfit to see their work.
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