GenericArchangel 
Moderator
Free the Tantabus
It is worth noting Celestia declared Shining the winner, he didn’t do it himself. Meaning she had it out for Twilight. Why? I blame that one time Twilight’s student fucked up her and Luna’s day.
Season 9 Discussion Thread [Warning: SPOILERS!!!!!]
Poison Trail
Meh, I don’t want to think about it more than I should.
Yknow what would’ve been smarter than going with the initial plan? Going with the initial plan backed with the info they got. That way they’d have been able to abuse the most blatant hole in the defenses: the hidden door connecting the bottom of the pitfall trap to the unguarded basements instead of a prison cell.
All they needed to do next was to have RD fly to the throne room, grab the crown, trigger the trap and be let into the basements where the rest is waiting. Could even check if the trap can be triggered from underneath to bypass being exposed, just to make sure.
Yknow what would’ve been smarter than going with the initial plan? Going with the initial plan backed with the info they got. That way they’d have been able to abuse the most blatant hole in the defenses: the hidden door connecting the bottom of the pitfall trap to the unguarded basements instead of a prison cell.
All they needed to do next was to have RD fly to the throne room, grab the crown, trigger the trap and be let into the basements where the rest is waiting. Could even check if the trap can be triggered from underneath to bypass being exposed, just to make sure.
Fwelin
Now that I look into it more, Haber was on the writing staff for both Father Knows Beast and Sparkle’s Seven. The inconsistency I mentioned earlier is even more grating to me now. I knew Haber wasn’t the best at continuity, but I’d have thought he could be consistent with his own (recent) episodes.
Parts of the episode were amusing, but that’s about it. I’ve disliked both this one and Uprooted (and found the opener “okay”), so I hope the season gets better. I really enjoyed season 8 with the exception of a few stinkers (one of which is my most hated in the series), so hopefully this season has some gems too.
Parts of the episode were amusing, but that’s about it. I’ve disliked both this one and Uprooted (and found the opener “okay”), so I hope the season gets better. I really enjoyed season 8 with the exception of a few stinkers (one of which is my most hated in the series), so hopefully this season has some gems too.
Spinny 
Resident Spin Fetishist
@Fwelin
You know, I have to agree. Initially, I wrote it off by suggesting that Twilight made him wise to what she was up to and that’s why Shining camped, but the fact is that he knew right from the start that she would be making an attempt to steal the crown and her challenge should have been doing so by successfully getting through all the defenses. So his camping was most definitely bullshit cheating.
You know, I have to agree. Initially, I wrote it off by suggesting that Twilight made him wise to what she was up to and that’s why Shining camped, but the fact is that he knew right from the start that she would be making an attempt to steal the crown and her challenge should have been doing so by successfully getting through all the defenses. So his camping was most definitely bullshit cheating.
Fwelin
Now that I’ve thought about it more, I’ve come up with the perfect analogy.
Let’s say that someone challenges you to run a marathon because he doesn’t think you can pull it off. If you succeed, you get a reward, but if you fail, he does.
You run the marathon and manage to get to the end, but right as you’re about to cross the finish line he pops up and tackles you. Then, he says you failed because you fell down before reaching the end. Not only did he change the rules on you (like when Shining changed the lose condition from “you fail to make it past the defenses” to “you get seen”), but he also personally intervened when the point of the challenge hinges on him not being involved (like when Shining camped out in the throne room). Then, he had the audacity to act like it’s YOUR fault you failed the challenge, so him getting the reward is justified.
Celestia being involved and endorsing this unfairness makes it even worse.
Let’s say that someone challenges you to run a marathon because he doesn’t think you can pull it off. If you succeed, you get a reward, but if you fail, he does.
You run the marathon and manage to get to the end, but right as you’re about to cross the finish line he pops up and tackles you. Then, he says you failed because you fell down before reaching the end. Not only did he change the rules on you (like when Shining changed the lose condition from “you fail to make it past the defenses” to “you get seen”), but he also personally intervened when the point of the challenge hinges on him not being involved (like when Shining camped out in the throne room). Then, he had the audacity to act like it’s YOUR fault you failed the challenge, so him getting the reward is justified.
Celestia being involved and endorsing this unfairness makes it even worse.
Fwelin
@PonyPon
Shining’s not going to sit in the throne room waiting for intruders normally (he’s got his own country to help run), nor would an actual intruder (that’s a threat) be deterred just by being seen by him in the throne room. If someone like (a decently fed) Tirek got past all of the castle defenses and Shining was waiting in the throne room, it’s Tirek that wins, not Shining.
Shining’s not going to sit in the throne room waiting for intruders normally (he’s got his own country to help run), nor would an actual intruder (that’s a threat) be deterred just by being seen by him in the throne room. If someone like (a decently fed) Tirek got past all of the castle defenses and Shining was waiting in the throne room, it’s Tirek that wins, not Shining.
Background Pony #F4C0
@Fwelin
You make a good point with Shining winning, I hadn’t even thought about that.
That IS unfair. Good thing Spike got the better of all of them
You make a good point with Shining winning, I hadn’t even thought about that.
That IS unfair. Good thing Spike got the better of all of them
Background Pony #D37C
@Background Pony #1EE4
They should’ve added Spike calling Celestia and Shining out on their bullshit strat :P
They should’ve added Spike calling Celestia and Shining out on their bullshit strat :P
Background Pony #F4C0
I was examining the Spike “foot stomping” at this scene when I noticed how hilariously the audio loops at that point
Sparkle Alarm
Sparkle Alarm
Background Pony #E1AB
@ILoveMyoozik
As long as you turn your brain off, this episode is fine…it’s just, as soon as you enable any thinking power, problems begin to arise.
Im surprised no-one in the studio called out on this little plot hole. I’d be questioning how Shining and Celestia got away with their bullshit. At least then, I’d hope they would re-write that part…
As long as you turn your brain off, this episode is fine…it’s just, as soon as you enable any thinking power, problems begin to arise.
Im surprised no-one in the studio called out on this little plot hole. I’d be questioning how Shining and Celestia got away with their bullshit. At least then, I’d hope they would re-write that part…
Mr.Myoozik 
Music Connoisseur
@Background Pony #5879
I just think that people are nitpicking over an episode that’s just supposed to be fun and enjoyable. Plot holes and continuity errors happens all the time, no episode is perfect and it’s inevitable. To me, it just feels like mountains being made of molehills.
I just think that people are nitpicking over an episode that’s just supposed to be fun and enjoyable. Plot holes and continuity errors happens all the time, no episode is perfect and it’s inevitable. To me, it just feels like mountains being made of molehills.
DarkObsidian 
Smiling Panzerfuchs 2.0
@ILoveMyoozik
I often wonder where the thinking comes from that MLP episodes should be story-technically perfect. They never were and they never will be. To expect it now to the end seems rather illogical to me. ;-)
Well, I enjoy the lightheartedness of every single episode, laugh at the good jokes and be happy to see something I particularly like. Maybe my expectations are just quite different.
Let’s try to enjoy the last episodes until the finale, instead of arguing about little things every time. The end is near, a new beginning follows. For my part, I still like being a Brony and I’m looking forward to G5. Even if the first concept drawings looked horrible. It can only get better. ;-D
I often wonder where the thinking comes from that MLP episodes should be story-technically perfect. They never were and they never will be. To expect it now to the end seems rather illogical to me. ;-)
Well, I enjoy the lightheartedness of every single episode, laugh at the good jokes and be happy to see something I particularly like. Maybe my expectations are just quite different.
Let’s try to enjoy the last episodes until the finale, instead of arguing about little things every time. The end is near, a new beginning follows. For my part, I still like being a Brony and I’m looking forward to G5. Even if the first concept drawings looked horrible. It can only get better. ;-D
Background Pony #E1AB
Are you trying to bait people? All I want from an episode is have the story hit all its points without messing up the general message.
As someone rightfully pointed much earlier in this thread, having Shining cheating his way to victory is the equivalent of tackling a marathon runner before he crosses the finish line. Even the spectators could tell something went horribly wrong!
I often wonder where the thinking comes from that MLP episodes should be story-technically perfect. They never were and they never will be. To expect it now to the end seems rather illogical to me. ;-)Well, I enjoy the lightheartedness of every single episode, laugh at the good jokes and be happy to see something I particularly like. Maybe my expectations are just quite different.Let’s try to enjoy the last episodes until the finale, instead of arguing about little things every time. The end is near, a new beginning follows. For my part, I still like being a Brony and I’m looking forward to G5. Even if the first concept drawings looked horrible. It can only get better. ;-D
Are you trying to bait people? All I want from an episode is have the story hit all its points without messing up the general message.
As someone rightfully pointed much earlier in this thread, having Shining cheating his way to victory is the equivalent of tackling a marathon runner before he crosses the finish line. Even the spectators could tell something went horribly wrong!
GenericArchangel
Moderator
Free the Tantabus
@Background Pony #5879
It’s the one detail that’s off in the whole episode. It’s fine. And for what it’s worth, it wouldn’t matter if Shining had instead come in to congratulate Twilight on her victory because Spike and Luna would’ve stolen the crown anyway.
It’s the one detail that’s off in the whole episode. It’s fine. And for what it’s worth, it wouldn’t matter if Shining had instead come in to congratulate Twilight on her victory because Spike and Luna would’ve stolen the crown anyway.
DarkObsidian
Smiling Panzerfuchs 2.0
@Background Pony #5879
I’m not baiting anyone. I only allow myself to have my own opinion about what you should expect from a TV show whose actual target group are little girls. But because it’s designed the way it is, it makes it so lovable and a pleasure to watch the episodes even as as an adult middle-aged man. Getting a crisis each and every time just because you don’t get what you want or expect is (I’m sorry to have to say that) childish. IMO. No offense.
But I don’t want to start another fight either. I just wanted to say that I will enjoy this last season as much as I can myself and I would advise everyone else to do the same. No further discussions that would lead to nothing anyway from my side. ;-)
I’m not baiting anyone. I only allow myself to have my own opinion about what you should expect from a TV show whose actual target group are little girls. But because it’s designed the way it is, it makes it so lovable and a pleasure to watch the episodes even as as an adult middle-aged man. Getting a crisis each and every time just because you don’t get what you want or expect is (I’m sorry to have to say that) childish. IMO. No offense.
But I don’t want to start another fight either. I just wanted to say that I will enjoy this last season as much as I can myself and I would advise everyone else to do the same. No further discussions that would lead to nothing anyway from my side. ;-)
Background Pony #E1AB
@DarkObsidian
Sigh I’ll have to agree to disagree then.
@GenericArchangel
Actually, I think the episode could’ve ended nicely if they did that. Have Shining come in to congratulate Twilight but then find out that the crown was stolen anyway. Lesson to the kids: Don’t underestimate anything.
Sigh I’ll have to agree to disagree then.
@GenericArchangel
Actually, I think the episode could’ve ended nicely if they did that. Have Shining come in to congratulate Twilight but then find out that the crown was stolen anyway. Lesson to the kids: Don’t underestimate anything.
Background Pony #44A6
For Sparkle’s Seven, how does it make ANY sense that Shining camping out in the throne room counts as Twilight failing the competition? The point was to get past the castle’s defenses that were added (which she and her friends did), not to somehow immediately get disqualified for some reason just because Shining saw her. Even if he somehow counts as part of the defenses (despite going to be in the Crystal Empire 99% of the time under normal circumstances), he didn’t even give her a chance to try to get past him. That’s like playing Capture the Flag, but having your team’s flag already on your side of the field when the contest starts, causing uou to instantly win. I didn’t take Shining for someone who breaks the rules for his own benefit and then acts smug about it on top of that.
It counts because of what the challenge actually was.
Twilight Sparkle: “You want me to break into Celestia’s castle?”
Shining Armor: “If you can get past my defenses, steal the crown, and get out, you’ll be Sibling Supreme forever!”
The agreement was not just to get past the castle’s new defenses. Stealing the crown and making it out of the castle again was part of the agreement as well. So the fact that Twilight and her friends get caught before completing all the objectives still makes it a failure, regardless of whether or not the break in was successful.
Of course technically, if you want to be argumentative, Spike technically doesn’t fulfill the “making it out” part either, but at the same time he still manages to actually get the item they’re after, which is one objective more than Twilight managed. And given that the only reason he didn’t make it back outside with the crown was revealing the ruse to prove a point (and gloat a bit), I’m not surprised they declared him the winner.
Of course technically, if you want to be argumentative, Spike technically doesn’t fulfill the “making it out” part either, but at the same time he still manages to actually get the item they’re after, which is one objective more than Twilight managed. And given that the only reason he didn’t make it back outside with the crown was revealing the ruse to prove a point (and gloat a bit), I’m not surprised they declared him the winner.
Vivace
“ShimSham my GlimGlams”
@Background Pony #BC5A
Look at that! Someone using the exact words from the dialogue rather than relying on faulty memory.
Look at that! Someone using the exact words from the dialogue rather than relying on faulty memory.
Mr.Myoozik
Music Connoisseur
@Background Pony #5879
Like I said, it is inevitable and it will happen, even if you try your hardest to make it look good. No episode is and will be 100% perfect, not even the recent one and it does have its issues, so it’s one of those things that you have to expect. It depends on the person whether they treat these like a subtraction against the episodes or a natural part of it. Mistakes and screwups happen is all I’m saying and it’s best to not overthink the little things.
Like I said, it is inevitable and it will happen, even if you try your hardest to make it look good. No episode is and will be 100% perfect, not even the recent one and it does have its issues, so it’s one of those things that you have to expect. It depends on the person whether they treat these like a subtraction against the episodes or a natural part of it. Mistakes and screwups happen is all I’m saying and it’s best to not overthink the little things.
Volcel
I really like the Premiere, very exciting, didn’t get bored even for one second due to many thing happening in it. - 9/10. Not a perfect episode due to some clunky story decisions like making Celestia and Luna very irresponsible.
Uprooted - 3/10. Didn’t like the whole premise of only Student6 caring about the tree or being chosen by it. You would think the Pillars or Mane6 would have a stronger bond with it. And of course whole Elemnt of harmony tree ended up becoming just another toy set while also diminishing what Sombra acomplished in the Premiere.
Twilight Seven - as an ordinary Slice of Life episode, it was just OK, I say even good 7/10. It was just mostly dependant on comedic animations than a good story. It was basically a heist movie parody, and i really don’t like any episodes that work as a movie or genre episode. Whether is 28 pranks later(zombie movie parody), PPOV (Rashomon parody) or Hearth Warming parody of Christma Carol, for me is just a sign of lack of ideas.
In addition, it was a 200 milestone episode so i was expecting something a little more special and crazy than ordinary slice of life episode which was less crazy than Pinkie Pride or Rarity Investigate.
So its 7/10 as a slice of life episode but only 4/10 as a special milestone episode.
Uprooted - 3/10. Didn’t like the whole premise of only Student6 caring about the tree or being chosen by it. You would think the Pillars or Mane6 would have a stronger bond with it. And of course whole Elemnt of harmony tree ended up becoming just another toy set while also diminishing what Sombra acomplished in the Premiere.
Twilight Seven - as an ordinary Slice of Life episode, it was just OK, I say even good 7/10. It was just mostly dependant on comedic animations than a good story. It was basically a heist movie parody, and i really don’t like any episodes that work as a movie or genre episode. Whether is 28 pranks later(zombie movie parody), PPOV (Rashomon parody) or Hearth Warming parody of Christma Carol, for me is just a sign of lack of ideas.
In addition, it was a 200 milestone episode so i was expecting something a little more special and crazy than ordinary slice of life episode which was less crazy than Pinkie Pride or Rarity Investigate.
So its 7/10 as a slice of life episode but only 4/10 as a special milestone episode.
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