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@gingerninja666
 
The reveal “served a purpose” alright - it made the finale into a farce. It once again made an episode’s core problem solely based on Discord being pretentious. It was a stupid cop-out for Grogar and a cheap excuse to shove together pre-existing antagonists rather than have an interesting new one. It’s literally “a wizard did it” except the wizard is the worst character in the show, and it’s the absolute dumbest story they could possibly have went with.
 
And Twilight’s “shattered spirit” is merely yet another attempt to dismiss the long-standing criticism of how bad the show has gotten by trying to lampshade it non-comically, much like the episode where they publish their Friendship Journal and all the critics are caricatured as whiny and unfair.

@AWGear
 
SOMEONE was getting shafted in that finale. It was either going to be Grogar or the Trio
 
At least the reveal served a purpose. It shattered Twilight’s spirits and paid off discord’s weird behaviour throughout the season.
 
Shafting the Trio would’ve just made their entire arc a shaggy dog story to put over how awesome Grogar is.
 
And if you did neither of those, then you would’ve even more players bloating out the finale.

@gingerninja666  
Exactly, but there was soo much fuss made about his inclusion. Even the show constantly hinted at his “grand big plan” and continously stated how “powerfull and evil” he was.
 
Which is the exact reasons why some of us (me) didn’t liked his incusion at all. He was just some rando who came in to be the final antagonist. But as much as I didn’t wanted him to be the final “bad guy” of the show, I didn’t want him to be so lazily written out of the story.

@AC97  

 
Maybe he’d only just returned, freed by Cozy Glow stealing all the magic, perhaps?

@AC97
 
Grogar did come out of left field other than a handwave mention in a children’s storybook (which could easily have just also mentioned Tambelon if you so desperately needed it telegraphed.)
 
The Pony of Shadows came out of left field after a brief mention as a boogeypone.
 
Chrysalis came out of left field with no prior mention at all.
 
It’s called a plot twist. That’s how they work.
 
Using the entire history of the show as the impetus to summon the Ultimate Evil would be the best possible way to end it, but they didn’t do that. They did another typical two-parter where FRIENDSHIP’S POWER IS MAXIMUM-ER, the only difference being that Twilight is becoming the princess.

@AWGear
 
Grogar didn’t get any focus throughout the season. He was a plot device. And we know from leaks that the twist was planned from the beginning.
 
And if the twist never happened, then it basically makes Discord’s behaviour a set up without a pay off.

@gingerninja666  
The issue that most people see, is that the story they were trying to tell feel more like a last minute change along the lines of “Shit, we forgot about adding Grogar to the finale. Quick! We gotta do something with him!”

@Tirimsil
 
THey could have done that. But that wasn’t the story they were trying to tell.
 
I think this is the big disconnect between parties regarding the finale. Grogar could’ve been written as a big monster, but others liked the story they chose to tell, with the villains we already know getting to be the ultimate threat by finally working together. Having a dark union (a twisted form of friendship) between the villains be the final obstacle to overcome makes a kind of poetic sense.

@Tirimsil
 
Again, you’d have to rewrite everything to make it feel natural.
 
In case you didn’t notice, there was absolutely zero mention of any “Tambelon” throughout the season, and so it would feel like it came out of left field, that sort of idea.
 
It would also make Frenemies feel like it was for nothing, the fact that their teamwork was making them stronger. They got the villain song, not Grogar, so it was their story. The three of them combined overcoming a stronger opponent is more thematically coherent than “Grogar is strongest there is and effortlessly outdoes everything they do because lol.”
 
Face it, as depicted before the twist, it’s questionable why Grogar didn’t just kill Celestia 100 years ago, instead of waiting for them to get to such a strong position before doing anything at all.

@AC97
 
They could easily have rewritten the story to make Grogar a proper main antagonist and not a classic Scooby Doo villain.
 
All they had to do was make it so that the combination of the Windigos’ return + the Three Amigos causing trouble produces a sufficient level of darkness to connect to the Shadow Realm and thus summon Tambelon + Grogar. Tambelon’s very presence threatens to send Equestria into the Shadow Realm because one or the other has to go there.
 
Bam, instant Big Problem Grogar.

@TheRocketMan
 
How would Grogar automatically be so much more threatening than those three? How were the stakes low with everything, exactly? They were in wonderful positions to murder Twilight and her friends, multiple times.
 
You’d have to rewrite most of their episodes for it to remotely work that way.
 
The Summer Sun Setback was building up to those three being the main threats, period. Unless Grogar was gonna go “lol, no, you spreading disharmony was all as I planned, your scheme is my scheme now.”

Snips kills Applejack

@E-123
 
Does it need to be? This is our thread, damn it! For those of us who held out until the very end!

I ask the same

So, when is gonna be the time when this thread and the spoilers thread will be converged into one?

@ILoveMyoozik  
Maybe not character wise. But as a threat combined with his power level, he would’ve provided a much more exciting climax. Instead we just got 3 villains we’ve already defeated (twice on one occasion) and a lower stakes battle as a result of Discord’s stupidity.

While at it, this relates to the Shining Armor & Cadance blandness discussion from a little ago:  
Know what would have been cool? An episode of Shining Armor joining Discord et al for an O&O session. In the comics he was a nerd in his younger years, having this in an episode would have given him more of a character

@Fwelin
 
Ogres & Oubliettes convention.
 
It’s basically the Equestrian equivalent of Dungeons & Dragons, seen in Dungeons & Discords, and The Break Up Breakdown.

Ah, thanks.

@Fwelin  
Ogres & Oubliettes

So, question. In the last episode, Fluttershy says Discord is going to an “O and O convention”. Does that mean anything in particular, or is it just supposed to be a mystery as to what those stand for?

>>2174642t (deleted)
 
So much better

@AC97  
Him being from that time made him kinda interesting
 
It’s not like the show expanded on The Trio’s grudge in a meaningful way anyway

@ILoveMyoozik
 
Exactly.
 
Grogar had the special position of being the antagonist with literally nothing about him being personal, as “advertised” before the twist, in sharp contrast to the other three. It would’ve been “they’re in my way,” not “they’ve defeated me before and I want revenge, and to take over.”
 
Even Celestia and Luna were born long after his defeat, which is something no villain that’s appeared in the entire series can say, I think.
 
The only beings he was shown being kinda cruel with were… the other villains.
 
Not innocent beings.

Come to think about it, Grogar wasn’t really that interesting or fleshed out as an antagonist other than just “being the leader of the Legion”