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Jaredking203
Artist -

The Game Lover-Fan
Stellar Flare and Firelight has the best pair, and are described as "Good Buddies". Why? Because they get along as friends, but I would take them more likely as buddies.
Posted Report
Background Pony #3CEE
Rarity and Rainbow have the worst luck of the Mane Six. Not that the other four don't have bad luck now-and-then, but they seem to be the one who gets it the most.
Philweasel
Equality - In our state, we do not stand out.

Right About Everything
@Mildgyth
I still go by what the Journal of Two Sisters says, even if it's pretty non canon. Amy Keating Rogers wrote it after all. As stated there Celestia isn't a 'ruler', she's a guardian and arbiter.

This would involve having practically unlimited power, but with the understanding that it's very rarely and very cautiously used.

…of course in the more than millennia since, Celestia's rule has acquired a lot of momentum. Still she seems practically speaking subordinate to the loyal governments.
Mildgyth
Best Pink Pony - For being the first person to reach 50k uploads, managing the site's featured images, and countless other contributions to the site.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Notoriously Divine Tagger - Consistently uploads images above and beyond the minimum tag requirements. And/or additionally, bringing over the original description from the source if the image has one. Does NOT apply to the uploader adding several to a dozen tags after originally uploading with minimum to bare tagging.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Humata, Hukhta, Hvarshta
@DanielTepesKraus
@DarkObsidian
since celestia has the power to just overturn entire legal bodies on a whim, like she did in the season 8 premiere, and how she has absolute control over the legal system, like we've seen in most episodes, we know it's objectively an absolute monarchy. even if she likes to pretend otherwise.


I usually intepret Celestia's aproach to ruling as similar to Dom Pedro II with the Constitution of 1824 — there is a constitution in which there is a inbuilt mechanism by which the monarch can override the other powers but she doesn't like using it unless it's absolutely necessary.
DarkObsidian
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Economist -

Panzerfuchs
@DanielTepesKraus

Ah, I have to correct you. If you look at the scene again, you'll see that Celestia didn't even know how to punish the three. It's basically Discord's whispering that leads to the three being petrified. Presumably Celestia herself would not have come up with the idea. Then the villains would have landed again in Tartarus, would have probably escaped, would have threatened Equestria and the ponies again (and probably killed — be it by direct action like half Canterlot blown away or summon an eternal winter). No, in this scene I can actually understand Celestia and Luna. Similar to Discord and King Sombra before, the princesses here use their power to protect their people from an even greater danger. Star Swirl the Bearded would probably have acted the same way. A certain amount of commitment is expected from leaders. No matter what political system. Democracies are also liquidating terrorists.

And you're saying that she could sort of skip all the others with her decisions, but I think you're a little lacking the evidence for this thesis here. You're arguing from your own feelings, which I can understand. But you're exaggerating, I think. Like the Discord thing. Of course, the plot twist with Discord being Grogar was rather weak and might not seem forgivable. But then you also have to take into account that Discord simply corresponds to its chaotic nature. He is the living embodiment of chaos. In this state he EXISTS in this world. He can't help himself. Celestia and the ponies know about that. And they also know that he can be a friend. Besides, he apologized.

Grin. Of course, this is obviously a weak counter-argument. But it's not! You have to look at it from the logic of this world and the way the ponies think. For us human fans, the behavior of Discord may be damnable even to be despicable. But we don't live in a world of magical monsters and chaotic tricksters like Discord. Neither are we ponies, in whose own nature there is friendship and forgiveness for the mistakes of others. If you regret your mistakes first. Didn't you notice that of all the villains only Tirek and Co. don't regret anything? Never? Not for a single moment!? That's why they were petrified. Not because Celestia acts arbitrarily or stupidly. No, they are simply not reformable. At least not before the next 1000 years. Or would that be moons…? Uch, Equestrian timeline is a mess.

Your claim that Celestia would simply ignore the decisions and rules of others, I consider to be unfounded. Politics is obviously done by others, Celestia is basically passive all the time, which is why you can't read any authority from it. On the other hand, she shows mostly warm-hearted, almost maternal consideration for her subjects: she does not punish Fluttershy for stealing Philomena, nor Twilight for the chaos in Lesson Zero. But not out of arbitrariness, but because of their friendly nature. In return, however, she must constantly trust that others will solve the problems for her. Celestia is trapped in a web of daily (and obviously annoying) obligations, instead of diverting them like an absolutist ruler to others and making a good life for herself. She and her sister are still in a strong teacher/student relationship with Star Swirl and recognize him as the higher authority. From this no position of superiority can be discerned at all. Because she doesn't have it. Because she's a figurehead, a role model but the reins are in the hands of others.

But you have to be ready at all times to accept that she defends her little ponies like a mother. For this, we all know and love Princess Celestia. But I can understand that after more than 1000 moons she doesn't want to work anymore and prefers to retire. Then she can finally let off some steam. ;-)
DanielTepesKraus
Greatest Poster in the Board -
GREEN - TALK TO ME
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Equality - Was more equal than the rest of the people during the event and did the only smart thing: wasn't there :^)
Stolen Condensed Milk - Stole a can of Condensed Milk from Glimmer's private stash while she wasn't looking
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Not a Llama - I was once a treehouse! I lived in a cake! But I never saw the way, did the orange slay the rake?

Site Moderator
tyrant hole redux
@DarkObsidian
thing is though, as ruler her actions speak for themselves. by allowing twilight to do as she pleased she was objectively supporting it, as it was her duty as a leader to step in and prevent it if she didn't support it.

and there is absolutely law and order as determined by celestia. in the final episode alone, she was able to make the decision to seal away tirek, cozy, and chrysalis, without any trial or legal proceedings, so they could "never harm anyone again", while simultaneously deciding to let discord go free without consequence, even though he was more guilty of wrongdoing than his three henchmen combined, because he is her friend. in every definition of the term, and for better or for worse, she imposed authoritarian law and order based entirely on her own personal biases with no regard for the concerns of anyone else.

here's the thing. she doesn't have any repercussions at all, but can apply repercussions to anyone for any reason at any time at her own discretion. nobody can intervene to challenge her decisions at any level or by any means, while she is free to intervene and challenge the decisions of anyone at any time and for any reason. there is no means whatsoever to overrule her decisions, while she can overrule the decisions of anyone at any time and for any reason. she has full and absolute authority to do whatever she wants, whenever she wants, for any reason at all or no reason whatsoever, and whether anyone likes it or not. authority doesn't get anymore absolute than that.
DarkObsidian
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Economist -

Panzerfuchs
@DanielTepesKraus

Oh, I was thinking about Slice of Life. Well, the episode is a little… eccentric. You shouldn't interpret too much into that. I just wish Gummy would speak again in the last episode of season 9. ;-)

But coming back to Celestia for a second, I think you're still wrong about School Daze. Celestia remembers that the ponies of the three tribes created the EEA. But it wasn't her. And she herself doesn't say a word, "Twilight, I'm giving you permission." She just says she finds the idea wonderful, and she also accepts Twilight's arguments. But not because she's acting as an authority person here. It's because she encourages her former student to follow her own path.

I am convinced that there is no law and order in Equestria that is determined by Celestia. The ponies make their own rules, which is why Neighsay is so angry that Twilight changes the "rules" for the other species. In Equestria there seems to be a kind of customary law. Presumably there is a certain consensus, but that is why the politicians (or emissaries) have to meet again and again in Canterlot to discuss their demands and concerns. This is not an absolutist monarchy. At least in my opinion. No offense. ;-)
DanielTepesKraus
Greatest Poster in the Board -
GREEN - TALK TO ME
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Equality - Was more equal than the rest of the people during the event and did the only smart thing: wasn't there :^)
Stolen Condensed Milk - Stole a can of Condensed Milk from Glimmer's private stash while she wasn't looking
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Not a Llama - I was once a treehouse! I lived in a cake! But I never saw the way, did the orange slay the rake?

Site Moderator
tyrant hole redux
@Myoozik
thankfully mlp had the wherewithal to not make power levels an objective thing.

@DarkObsidian
exactly. she says a princess can't do whatever she wants, and then literally does whatever she wants by letting another princess do whatever she wants. she thinks she's not authoritarian, but she's authoritarian.

oh yeah, the cake thing is from slice of life.

@Terminal Red
for sure. we all know for real if celestia was an even borderline competent leader the show would have like zero conflicts lol. i'm not shitting on the show, just calling this shit out is fun
DarkObsidian
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Economist -

Panzerfuchs
@Terminal Red

"To Twilight it's numbers in the paper, to Cadance it's the letters from her husband, to Luna it's guns and tanks. But to me, it's my little ponies"

— Princess Celestia, Equestria at War
Terminal Red

@DanielTepesKraus
Celestia not careing about her people is a really uncharitable way of interpreting her actions. I'm sure that is not the intention of her writers.

Sometimes I think we hold this childrens show to too high a standard.
DarkObsidian
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Economist -

Panzerfuchs
@DanielTepesKraus

I don't want to say it's been plucked of thin air. You're right about that. But the saying "Celestia knows", etc. are humorous allusions to our world. Not because the ponies really believe she's a goddess. Here you simply have to pay attention to the stylistic instruments used by writers for the show. Of course the ponies adore the Alicorns, you can understand that quite logically, if you consider their old age, the achievements and abilities. But one must distinguish our human world and our language from the inner logic of the MLP universe. In the MLP world there are no gods. Incredibly powerful mystical creatures, yes. But gods? So you can't go about it with our human standards and say that the ponies worship Alicorn as gods. There are no gods. I hope you understand what I mean, Sorry, I can probably not express it very well in English as I would like to. ;-)

I think the "overturn entire legal bodies on a whim" is a wrong interpretation of things. Celestia herself clearly says that she can't do everything she wants when it comes to shape the minds of young ponies. The EEA also seems to me to be a fairly authoritarian and independent institution, since it is, as it always were since the unificationof the three tribes, the foundation upon which schools are usually built. In fact, Chancellor Neighsay is so firmly convinced of his position that he is almost invoking an international conflict. And it is Twilight who, in the end, finds the gap in the system and declares her school to be virtually independent. Celestia confirms that, but she doesn't do anything to stop Neighsay in his actions. Hence the question, can she do that? I do not see her in an absolutist position here. Quite the opposite, indeed.

Well, we know that Celestia has a more restrained, almost passive way of dealing with others. Usually it seems rather quiet and humble, but often it also seems a bit forced. If one compares Princess Celestia as "ruler" with Celestia, who is on a road trip with her sister, then it is rather clear that life in Canterlot must be quite cohesive and regulated. Celestia seems to me more like the old Chinese emperors in the Forbidden City. Of course not 100%, but just not free and arbitrary, as it has been in absolutist France. At least that's the impression I've gained in all the seasons. ;-)

remember when they went inside and ate cake while a monster was attacking their citizens?

Just out of curiosity, because I can't remember the scene right now, what episode was that again?
Vivace
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Artist -

“ShimSham my GlimGlams”
"Yo, Twilight. I know you love Celestia- I mean, we all do; she's a very nice lady, and I respect her immensely, but I think she might be a fucking idiot."
—DWApplejacK
DanielTepesKraus
Greatest Poster in the Board -
GREEN - TALK TO ME
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Equality - Was more equal than the rest of the people during the event and did the only smart thing: wasn't there :^)
Stolen Condensed Milk - Stole a can of Condensed Milk from Glimmer's private stash while she wasn't looking
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Not a Llama - I was once a treehouse! I lived in a cake! But I never saw the way, did the orange slay the rake?

Site Moderator
tyrant hole redux
@DarkObsidian
since celestia has the power to just overturn entire legal bodies on a whim, like she did in the season 8 premiere, and how she has absolute control over the legal system, like we've seen in most episodes, we know it's objectively an absolute monarchy. even if she likes to pretend otherwise.

besides, if there anyone more guilty of praising celestia as a goddess than the characters in the show? they worship her for her heavenly duties, they use phrases like "by celestia" instead of "by god", they obey her unswervingly even when she makes objectively amoral decisions, and she has powers no regular pony has. i'll grant that it's the prejudices of the fans, but they're not exactly being plucked from thin air.
DarkObsidian
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Economist -

Panzerfuchs
@DanielTepesKraus

they have the powers of fucking gods

Hmm, to be honest, I've always wondered how so much of the fandom could actually come to this assumption. Because if you are honest, the show shows a clearly different picture. Isn't it really only the wishes, loaded with prejudices of the fans, that are emerging here?

Firstly, we do not really know anything about Equestria's political system. Even if we were to assume that the Journal of the Two Sisters was still halfway canon, Celestia and Luna were virtually elected princesses. So we can't be sure at all that the Ponies' system of government is really a monarchist one. At best, it could be concluded that this is a constitutional monarchy in which the two princesses simply act as moral leaders. But not for real rulers. Luna also functions more as a kind of night watchman. She doesn't really rule during the night. She's making sure the ponies don't have nightmares.

Of course, there is no denying that Celestia and Luna are really powerful creatures, but then again to compare them with gods, seems to me too much. Certainly many fans compare them to ancient gods because they have the power to move the sun and the moon. But if I'm honest, it seems to me to be a kind of cosmic necessity, because the world of ponies seems to stand still — the job was done before by unicorns. I wonder, by the way, if they just let the sun rise again and again, then the night came automatically!? Here the MLP Lore is so full of holes that I am not sure that the claim of being gdos is also justified. Heroines are certainly both, as they have used the artifacts of the elements of harmony to banish Discord and King Sombra. How good that Star Swirl and the Pillars created them. ;-)

Please don't get me wrong. I don't think there's anything wrong with fans worshipping Celestia and Luna. I myself like a lot of artworks with this theme and I admire the creativity of the artists in this regard. But I wouldn't go so far as to blame Celestia and Luna for being useless in almost every dangerous situation on the show. Even Rainbow Dash makes fun of it by noting that the princesses never really help. For me, this clearly reflects how the staff and the writers see them. Their uselessness is just a kind of running gag. You have to deal with that. Of course, it's unfortunate that there were so many fans who just wanted to see Celestia do something with her powers. To show her true powers. But if we're being honest, what is she supposed to do? Should she let the sun fall on the world? Sure, why not? Here now please turn the screen black and roll the credits. My little pony, the end! Nah, it's simply a matter of fact. The powers of the princesses, their personalities and their theoretical role in the society of the ponies are remarkable, but from a logic point of view this is as logical as looking for a snowball in hell.

Well, I hope in G5 they try a little harder. ;-D
Background Pony #92EF
@DanielTepesKraus
Reminds of this video "Could Gandalf Control the One Ring?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCW0DeYmCbY
Just because an individual is extremely powerful, and even extremely competent, does not mean that individual should get more involved in the lives of others. Once you start meddling in ordinary affairs to make things "better" then where do you stop? Eventually every aspect of ponies' lives will be controlled from cradle to grave to make things "optimal," even if they don't like it. This is why I like earlier seasons of Celestia and Luna the best. We never even see them collect taxes and it's entirely possible they're self-funded somehow.
DanielTepesKraus
Greatest Poster in the Board -
GREEN - TALK TO ME
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Equality - Was more equal than the rest of the people during the event and did the only smart thing: wasn't there :^)
Stolen Condensed Milk - Stole a can of Condensed Milk from Glimmer's private stash while she wasn't looking
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Not a Llama - I was once a treehouse! I lived in a cake! But I never saw the way, did the orange slay the rake?

Site Moderator
tyrant hole redux
@Terminal Red
fair, but it's no more frightening than celestia looking at the four who attacked her country and deciding one goes free because he's part of her cabal while the other three get imprisoned for all eternity, even though the one who went free was the most responsible for the incident and not only enabled the other three but also coerced them with death threats, and then swept the whole thing under the rug and covered it up so her people could think justice was served and go on living not knowing the guy who tried to kill them all and felt nothing about it is now having tea with their beloved leader who also felt nothing about him trying to kill them all.

what i'm getting at is celestia doesn't give a shit about her people. she cares about herself. she has done literally nothing to show otherwise. it's not fear of going too far, but sheer apathy.
Terminal Red

@DanielTepesKraus
The idea of super powered immortal monarchs taking an even more hands on approach in trying to make Equestria a "better" place is actually frightening. For 1000 years celestia ruled over an almost utopian society. How much more hands on does she need to get?

The princesses aren't all powerful and they certainly aren't all knowing paragons of absolute virtue so why should they get to use their powers to interfere with their citizens lives to make them "better" in a way according to her.

Princess Luna breaking and entering into people dreams to provide lectures on morality is frightening enough.

They're princesses. They run policy and ensure the nation functions. Using their powers to ensure good weather, continue the day and night cycle and fend off the occasional threat that local authorities cant handle is about all they should be using their powers for.
DanielTepesKraus
Greatest Poster in the Board -
GREEN - TALK TO ME
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
Equality - Was more equal than the rest of the people during the event and did the only smart thing: wasn't there :^)
Stolen Condensed Milk - Stole a can of Condensed Milk from Glimmer's private stash while she wasn't looking
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Not a Llama - I was once a treehouse! I lived in a cake! But I never saw the way, did the orange slay the rake?

Site Moderator
tyrant hole redux
@GenericArchangel
also too, last time luna tried to do something about the state of the world she got sent to the moon for a 1000 years and labeled as a child killer by a national holiday while celestia sat back and lolled. i'm not defending her, what she tried to do was entirely selfish and entirely wrong, but i'm not exactly blaming her for having no interest in trying to do anything lol
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