Mario Discussion

@Beau Skunky
 
Yeah.

@Jarkes  
@Beau Skunky  
They still clearly wanted to do a traditional JRPG while the later Mario RPGs clearly did their own thing.

@09MurphyM
 
Also true. Though SMRPG did start the “action command” thing that Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi would do (although SMRPG called it “Timed Hits” and they worked quite differently from later action commands).

Also, the maximum HP and FP you can have in Super Mario RPG is 255 and 99, respectively, though I’ve never managed to reach that in any of my playthroughs of the game, even when I go out of my way to reach the level 30 cap.

@Jarkes  
Mallow’s psychopath could be considered a early version of tattle but the obvious downside is that it doesn’t automatically reveal the enemies health bar and keep on screen from then on.

@09MurphyM
 
Yeah. And of course “Shooting Star Summit” from Paper Mario was meant to be Star Hill and even has the same name in the Japanese version.

@Jarkes  
Comparing Super Mario RPG, and the first Paper Mario, both games have alot of similarities, despite being different games. Like both games’ parade ending sequences are similar, with Luigi leading the parade.
 
In fact, during development, Paper Mario was known as “Super Mario RPG 2,” and listed as such in Nintendo Power magazine’s upcoming game lists.

@Beau Skunky
 
Well, yeah, that’s probably WHY there are so many similarities despite the fact that it was reworked into its own thing.
 
Additionally, in some prerelease screenshots the Toad Town sign was labeled “Mushroom Kingdom” instead.

@Jarkes  
Not to mention, those hooded Jawa-like mystical NPCs are very similar to the “Shaman” friendly NPCs, and enemies from SMRPG.
 
Closest thing the “Mario & Luigi RPG” series had to them were the Jellyfish Sisters. ^{(I’d waifu them. j/k)}

Maybe if they try to bring back partners but find themselves still under the no new charges rules we will get Toadette.

@Shepherd  
It’s also like they forgot that even the main series has had friendly or neutral koopas and bob-ombs since Super Mario 64.

@09MurphyM  
Yeah, though the 3D games afterwards never really brought back Koopa the quick, or the Bob-omb buddies.
 
Didn’t Odyssey have a friendly female goomba though?

@Beau Skunky  
Goombette, yeah.
 
She didn’t talk or anything; She just swooned for Mario whenever he captured a Goomba and gave him a Power Moon.
 
Odyssey did have friendly Koopas though! The Koopa freerunners and a couple of Koopas who gave Mario those little “walk over the invisible line” challenges.
 
Honestly, Odyssey and Luigi’s Mansion 3 both give me hope that we could start seeing some more creativity in the RPGs again, since both games broke free from the super basic NSMB-derivative playbook and had some unique locales and creatures again.
 
(I’d also like the next Paper Mario to just pretend Paper Jam never happened; It’s clear that the first three Paper titles were intended to star the “main” Mario, not some separate paper version of him, with plenty of direct references to other games in the series.)

@GregUniverse
 
Oh hey, you’re back!

@Jarkes
 
Yeah!
 
…I locked myself out of my old account like an idiot. Then I found an even older account I forgot I had.
 
Good to see you all again.

@GregUniverse  
In fairness, the “classic” style NSMB, and 3D Land/World games had some unique areas, and enemies too.
 
As for “Paper Jam,” you probably don’t have to worry, as the PM games rarely have continuity, and it was just a one-off crossover game, and it doesn’t necessarily imply that. It just implies that PM, and the M&L series are alternative universes possibly. In fact, honestly all the RPGs & many of the games could be A.U.s, and it’s safe to assume the M&L games aren’t really part of the main canon either anyway.

@Beau Skunky
 
Well, maybe. PM64 mentions the original Super Mario Bros. by name, Thousand Year Door had Beanish bartenders and Chuckola Cola, and Super Paper Mario briefly mentioned Fawful. Plus PM64’s Goomboss and the Star Spirits would go on to appear in 3D non-Paper titles, so I feel like there’s always been some flexibility before.
 
And I didn’t mean to be dismissive of NSMB. I like those games, I just dislike how Sticker Star was relegated to pretty much only using things from that subseries; It felt very stifling compared to the previous titles in the series.

@GregUniverse  
There wasn’t even any races that debuted in the original Paper mario like duplighosts.

@GregUniverse  
I don’t remember SPM ever mentioning Fawful though. The Star Spirits only cameo’d in a Mario Party game though, and it’s debatable how canon those are.
 
Overall, I don’t think the Mario series was ever meant to have a set canon, but callbacks to previous games aren’t uncommon.  
…In fact, some people actually demonize the Mario series for that, claiming the series caters too much to “nostalgia pandering,” and such. Some are even bashing Sonic for that too.

@Beau Skunky  
I’d say it has as much canon as the director of that particular game feels like.
 
Miyamoto is usually pretty anti-continuity, but Koizumi and some of the RPG writers like to draw on it.
 
There’s no consistent canon, but I think it’s fair to say that some of the official contributors to the series try to utilize one, to varying extents; Koizumi expanding on the city where the original Donkey Kong took place in Odyssey for example.
 
Also, SPM Fawful references:  

 
A little less direct than I remembered it being, since he’s not actually mentioned by name, but still an obvious nod to the character.
 
I’m definitely not claiming Mario has this complex or serious lore or anything; Just that I prefer not arbitrarily splitting the subseries up and sectioning them off from ever using elements from each other. Let platformers use stuff from the RPGs! Let the sport/kart/party games use characters and locations from the Donkey Kong or Wario Land spinoffs! Let the Paper games use stuff from M&L and vice versa. Let everything be fair game for references and representation, is all I’m saying.

@GregUniverse  
I don’t think Miyamoto is anti-continuity, (seeing as Zelda has alot of it, and Star Fox does too) but he just doesn’t want his games to be limited by that, or to a single storyline. I can understand that, especially sense he said he basically wants fans to have their own personal interpretations of the Mario series, their own backstories, their own headcanon, as he prefer to leave some things to their imagination.
 
So in a way, I guess all those things can be linked if you want, and I agree, the references shouldn’t be limited.  
I suppose I do understand your annoyance though, because I kinda dislike how the main action games oftentimes ignore things like the existence of the Gameboy games, SMB2 enemies/bosses, (despite Shy Guys & Snifits appearing in SM64) Donkey Kong, Wario, and such.  
Aside from Odyssey’s DK nods, and Pauline finally appearing in a main Mario game sense Donkey Kong for Gameboy, if that counts. Meanwhile, Wario’s only roles in Mario games were “Super Mario Land 2,” and “Super Mario 64 DS,” yet he wasn’t allowed in “Super Mario Run.” He also wasn’t allowed in the NewSMB series, because he plays “too differently,” (even though in SM64DS they basically made him play similarly to Mario & Luigi) yet Toadette got in, and in her famed Peachette form is quite different.
 
Oh, now I remember that guy. Sense that game had the same english text writer as M&L, I assume he was the one who put that Fawful nod in, and it might not of been in the original Japanese version. Still, nice the RPG games acknowledge each other sort’ve.  
(It’s criminal the 3DS remake of “SuperStar Saga” removed the Geno cameo. If Square/Enix allowed him to be a SSB Mii costume, I don’t see why they wouldn’t of allowed that again.)

@Jarkes
 
Excellent! Nintendo wasn’t lying when they said that there are more unannounced games that will launch this year! Now if maybe they reveal a couple more…

@Jarkes  
Looks like that “New Paper Mario” rumor was true. (Granted, they make a new PM game for every system, so it was an inevitable coincidence anyway.)  
Surprising it’s coming out so soon, and not ganna lie, I like the unique origami theme/gimmick. I wonder if that means Paper Mario will be able to fold into new 3D origami forms.
 
I hope this means the new Super Mario Collection rumors are true too. (I would kill all your pet goldfishes for that.)

@Beau Skunky
 
We’ve got partners again as well! They don’t have unique designs, but like I care, it’s partners!