Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

@silbasa  
“We” meaning who, hmm? The rich have certainly never been richer.
 
 
@tehwatever  
The question is, can greed be changed? Or is any system it can corrupt doomed to start with?
 
 
@Background Pony #74E7  
So it would obvously only be worth doing it if you can trick the consumers that you hadn’t, or if it was a good thing, tben.

@Latecomer  
We = Average people in western nations. The rich are richer and so is Joe Blow Average McDude. Can you name a time in history when we had more opportunities and a better quality of life than we do now, both career wise and socially? We are at the zenith right now.

@Latecomer  

 
Yes? Kinda? The hard part is defining good. People like the idea of a moral capitalism until the company’s moral stance doesn’t line up with their own, then it becomes a shitstorm. How do you communicate that they are making a mistake? Stop buying their product in the hope they change. Well then now you are hoping for a capitalism based on profits and are using morality to steer it.

@silbasa  
Actually, the post-war period was the only one in history when the middle class gained in wealth faster than the rich. For the first time, inequality was actually decreasing instead of widening. And then the Chicago Boys came and ruined everything.

@Background Pony #74E7  
It is tricky, but sheer profits-over-all sociopathy isn’t working very well.
 
 
@silbasa  
I don’t know about oppurtunities, but I think conservatives and liberals agree that there were times in the living memory of many people when “ordinary people” had much more secure lifestyles.

@Dustcan  

 
Looking back at the DOW from June 2020, it looks like it was less a boom period and more a rebound from the COVID-related collapse in Spring. Most rapid stock increases follow a crash.

@Ereiam
 
And that’s directly due to the New Deal. Minimum wage ensuring even the lowest paid worker could make a living, strong unions giving collective bargaining to the working class, government funded infrastructure jobs created a work boon, grants turning college into something anyone can attend rather than the kids of the uber rich, etc.

@Ereiam  
@Latecomer  
Employment was more stable and there were more jobs. That’s something we should bring back in the form of more factory and production jobs from abroad. Other than that, most things were worse off then than they are today. We are safer, live longer and we are far more tolerant than we ever were before. Significant advances have been made for everyone. Most identitarian movements are superfluous. Now we have to maintain what we have accomplished and show the rest of the world the way.

@silbasa
 
Factory jobs aren’t coming back and the overall US economic structure wouldn’t support it anyway. We’ve shifted hard away from a manufacturing economy and into a service and tech economy.
 
We’d have to wreck our environment, drain our tax coffers, and reshape whole industries to even begin to have enough incentive for companies to bring back factory jobs.
 
And even then, a robot will do more for less.

@Latecomer  
I think boiling it down like that doesn’t paint a picture of any country though. No country in the world is a pure profit over all unregulated capitalist economy.
 
Most countries are instead mixed capitalistic systems who have thankfully enjoyed great benefits from the system.

@silbasa  
In some ways you are right. But not nearly as many as you think, IMO.
 
 
@Background Pony #74E7  
And the less regulation, the less benefit to the people… or so it seems.

@Latecomer  
It depends on where you’re getting the information from. Many people do think this, mainly because they are told America is this country that has fully embraced free market capitalism and people are suffering. They try to convince others that regulation is the key, Capitalism is a bad thing and the more regulated the better.
 
The truth is much more refined. Many countries, including “Democratic Socialist” countries have economies just as free or freer then the US, and they are doing just as well or better. It isn’t as simple as just add more regulations to control capitalism. You need to strategically apply the minimum amount to do good. The quality of regulation matters, not the quantity.

@Background Pony #74E7  
True enough. But whether it’s the quality, the quantity or both, it’s very urgent.

@Latecomer  
I think any new regulations being passed need to be done carefully, and at the same time old regulations need to be looked at to be cut. All of these carry benefits and costs. If you just pile on more you’re opening yourself up to more problems.

@Background Pony #74E7  
Certainly there needs to be holistic review and careful consideration.

@Zincy  
I think more can be done here. Robots are not advanced enough for all jobs yet, any sort of basic income is a long way off. We can produce more environmentally friendly and safer products than many poorer nations can and we can up the quality (and price) to reduce waste, make products that last longer. Corona has also at least to us here in Norway shown the importance of having some manufacturing capabilities. Also lots of tech and service jobs we can bring back home.
 
@Latecomer  
Better than anywhere else on the map. I see what other parts of the world are like and I don’t want to trade places.

@silbasa  
If you looked at anywhere on the map 200 years ago, would you find anywhere half as good as here? Progress is an unending road.

@Latecomer  
You would. Not anymore. The question is where are you off to now?

@silbasa  
Where would you find such a place?

@Latecomer  
200 years ago? Anywhere really. America, Australia, Asia…

@silbasa  
So you’re saying that in the 1820s, all those places were comparatively as good as right now? Are you stupid or did you misinterpret the question on purpose?

@Ereiam  
What??

@silbasa  

 
That’s my line: Latecomer asked you if there was a place 200 years ago that was as good as right now. Your answer was “anywhere really”. So I’m wondering if you misunderstood or if you’re just playing dumb here.

@Ereiam  
I answered the question under the following premise: Was it hard to find a place as good as Europe was 200 years ago on the map? My answer was no.
 
Today it’s hard to find a better place than Europe to live.

@silbasa  
The question he asked you was if you could find a place that was as good 200 years ago as Europe is today.