“No, see, it’s the people who don’t want to let in actual, literal Nazis who are the REAL Nazis!”
This is not a counterargument. I would love to hear it if you have one, but the bottom line is, it’s the truth. This is what is happening here. If you see the parallels with Nazism, if you see the way that things are being done as a parallel with Nazism then dismissing the concept as absurd without looking into the actual actions being taken is exactly what enabling Naziesque behavior looks like. I argue for the protection of speech and the right to speak of anyone. The right to speak does not mean the right to discriminate based on personal characteristics, to include, in this case, people who make Nazi jokes that the staff does not wish to consider comedy because they use racism as a dark comedic implement.
If you actually believe that, then how do you rationalize tolerating the presence of values that are so obviously opposed to it.
The presence of values does not in any way equate to the implementation of practices that align with those values. If the Nazi memers were trying to actively push out or silence other groups in the community from a position of any authority I would be just as opposed to them as I am to the current push against them. Becoming the enemy of free speech and representation of the entire community to excise a portion of the community you disagree with is an unacceptable standard and is the exact reason why these people are being said to be removed in the first place, negating the point of removing them. It is not simply that there are no bad tactics, merely bad targets – some tactics are absolutely abhorrent, no matter who they are used against. Silencing and censorship is one such tactic.
“Hey, you’re the guys who engineered the ruthless and systematic murder of millions of IRL people” is totally just as trivial as “Hey, I don’t personally like you.”
Yep.
Totally.
Number one: Not a single person among the group that is being targeted ever took part in a single warcrime of the Nazis. Number two: Not a single person among the group that is being targeted ever avowed in a serious tone the ruthless and systematic murder of millions of IRL people. Number three: Even if they had avowed such a thing, they lack the position of authority to enact their vision in the first place and keeping them from having that authority is better served by hearing and mocking their viewpoint than pushing it off in the margin to grow unopposed. Number four: My stance has never included allowing calls for actionable real-world violence in any way, nor personal harassment. Number five: It is as trivial as it sounds when you put it that way, because no one in the group currently being suppressed is capable of harming other members of the community directly with memes, especially when the filters are activated on this site.
Ignoring the context of what the group in question did to earn their “fuck you” because of how many people they’ve hurt and how many more people their philosophy advocates hurting in the future if they ever gain the power to do so is unbelievably tone-deaf and dishonest.
No one is ignoring the history of Nazism here. I would argue the same for any group, literally, any group. I’ve done so in the past for social justice when it was unfashionable, the Westboro Baptist Church, Gay Rights, Trans Rights, etc. No one deserves to be silenced or told that their opinion is not allowed in a group that they’re a part of, so long as they are not, in voicing said opinion, calling for actual real world violence or targeted harassment of individuals. Freedom of expression supersedes the right to silence those with bad ideas, because the right to silence those with bad ideas in the wrong hands is the right to silence those who oppose bad ideas. Giving the right to censor others to anyone is providing the justification for those who would censor you to do so when they’re in control without your right to argue against it:
“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.”
is no less poignant when written as;
“First they came for the Nazis, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Nazi.”
There is nothing dishonest about what I’ve said. I have done nothing but advocate equal treatment that does not discriminate based on any factors – to include Race, Sex, Religion, Political Group, Ideology or any other personally identifying characteristic. The only difference between me and you is that I don’t believe that silencing the speech of another group’s ideology is a good thing, even if I’m opposed to them. I would not silence you or the mods or admins had I the power to and I will not stand by and allow the this community to become ruled by those who would silence others so long as I can continue to argue against it.
