Debate thread: About downvoting (modnote:no, not being removed again)

Nonymous

You fucked up, TSP.

@The Smiling Pony

@Nonymous

Wait, smiling and frowning are the same person? I thought having multiple accounts was against the rules.

Which just reinforces you’ve never read the rules, as multiple accounts have been covered as “OK” for half a decade.

People that are afraid that leaving criticism would have a negative effect downvote instead.

There’s no way you believe that a significant portion of people downvoting rather than leaving actual criticism are doing so out of fear of a “negative effect”, rather than simple laziness or utter lack of care.

In either case, downvotes aren’t getting removed.

a. I’ve read the rules on the upload page plenty of times, but only skimmed over more than THE BIG BOLD RULE OUTLINES, one of which mentions multiple accounts, which doesn’t apply to me, so no I never bothered reading the specifics.

b. Don’t assume to know what I believe, sweetie. And that’s a great way to demonize “a significant portion of people downvoting” .

c. So why are we still talking about this in the thread specifically for debating over being for or against downvotes?

Posted 6 years ago Report

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The Smiling Pony

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡° )

c. So why are we still talking about this in the thread specifically for debating over being for or against downvotes?

Because some people are discussing how we got here, as well as what can be done about the problems that lead to this situation.

Others are just here to be annoying.

I could rename the thread to something more in-line with the actual topic, but I’m sure someone would call that power abuse.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Nonymous

You fucked up, TSP.

@The Smiling Pony

@Nonymous

c. So why are we still talking about this in the thread specifically for debating over being for or against downvotes?

I could rename the thread to something more in-line with the actual topic, but I’m sure someone would call that power abuse.

As long as you propose it and wait a few minutes to make the change in case someone has a problem with it, you should be fine.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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ArrJaySketch

@The Smiling Pony
I think renaming the thread would be good choice, honestly.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Mange

Dr Mange Drange MD

@The Smiling Pony

I could rename the thread to something more in-line with the actual topic, but I’m sure someone would call that power abuse.

The fact you even feel the need to ‘cast vote’ for that is absurd.

@ArrJaySketch

@The Smiling Pony
I think renaming the thread would be good choice, honestly.

gargling noises

Posted 6 years ago Report

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ushiki

Yellow Man has no words

Very true. A better example would be the site layout change, that was irreversible.

It’s good example. I was so mad at these changes once i went to css tutorials and made my own stylish patch.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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SuperSupermario24

fluffy sylveon

@The Smiling Pony

My “alt” has always been public, blatantly so.

To be fair, I wouldn’t really call it “blatant”. Yeah, it’s something you’re probably going to pick up after using the site for a bit, but to someone who hasn’t been very active on the site, especially around moderation stuff, it’s not immediately obvious.

Although you do definitely have a point. You’re not actually trying to masquerade as someone you’re not, you just have a second account that doesn’t have a red “Site Administrator” tag (and the people who insist that everyone in power should always carry a visible tag like that give me the impression that they’re someone who only cares about following the rules when they know there’s a mod around).

Posted 6 years ago Report
Edited 6 years ago

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Mikey

Moderator

Ayriana

@The Smiling Pony
Oh hey, nice avatar change

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Icicle Niceicle 1517

Ocs,Boops,Tickles&Memes

@Mike
I thought he didn’t like Starlight?

Or does the image just suit the reaction for all the shit TSP has been dealing with?

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Mikey

Moderator

Ayriana

@ice1517
Actually, I think he does like Starlight.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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toxicitzi

I am fine either way, with or without a downvote button. I will say a few things about downvoting, it’s lazy. It can be useful sometimes but right now it outweighs its very few benefits, mainly because comments are far superior even in those few situations, more creativity and laughs can come from them.

If downvotes stay or not is irrelevant to someone like me as I stopped having discussions here, but if there are those who want to improve the site starting with the community, a thing that’s arguably the most important thing here? Don’t you think adding more of an incentive to reply will help?

It’s not about everyone thoough, but it is about a few really hopeless cases. I think the site has far more tools to help through with browsing images based on one’s taste, when the site decides something like filters is detrimental, I’ll be here with everyone yapping on about bringing it back.

Posted 6 years ago Report
Edited 6 years ago

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Nonymous

You fucked up, TSP.

want to improve the site starting with the community, a thing that’s arguably the most important thing here? Don’t you think adding more of an incentive to reply will help?

So you’re saying we should remove the voting system all together?
Because upvotes are just as lazy.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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toxicitzi

@Nonymous
Yeah.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Background Pony #1A4C

I came in late to the party, but here’s my two cents:

Why the ever-loving fuck would you fix something that ain’t broke?

And don’t pull the “abusing the system” bs, people downvote because they don’t like something. If a drawing is shitty, we downvote it. If we don’t like the content/message of the art, we downvote it. It’s really simple, and typically the good posts that people “abusively downvoted” are outweighed by upvotes.

Are we trying to foster a “safe space” mentality here? Where NOBODY’S shitty art or art with hateful messages or illegal things is considered bad? Why even have a scoring system, there shouldn’t be popular posts because someone might feel left out because their art/post didn’t make the cut! Why even allow favorites, because you know what they say about playing favorites! Remove the report button while you’re at it, because who cares if a post is a duplicate or is stolen paysite content, taking someone’s post down is MEAN! And remove comments, because they have the potential to deliver CRITICISM!

See where I’m going with this? Also, the part about “hiding” posts… We already have a filter to use, encourage people to use THAT instead of adding a watered-down, redundant feature that ONLY hides one post at a time.

And lastly, as for mass downvoting… How about you tackle the alts and bots responsible for it? Seriously, DON’T just hide the downvote button as the easy way out, tackle the bigger fish!

Posted 6 years ago Report
Edited 6 years ago

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Mikey

Moderator

Ayriana

@Background Pony #F79B
The problem was people creating multiple accounts and using them to downvote the same image multiple times. How is that fair?
Also, some people go through a tag and downvote images without looking at them. That also isn’t fair.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Background Pony #FFD9

@Background Pony #F79B
But if you’d actually read any of the thread you’d know it very much is broken. Downvote abuse is something the mods have been struggling with for years. Tackling bots and alts isn’t something you can wave a magic wand at, it takes a lot of work. Too much work. And unless you’ve ever tried to quickly filter a single image, I dont know how you think the hide button would be a useless feature

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Zeb

Tag-Bot

@Background Pony #F79B

Why the ever-loving fuck would you fix something that ain’t broke?

Because it is broken. Just because some people don’t think it’s a problem. Doesn’t mean everyone is ok with it.
And as had been stated before: Our only input from users before this point was expressing dislike over the downvote system. Since people rarely contact us to talk about a system they enjoy.

Now that we have gotten feedback from artists who approve of the downvote system, we are working on a solution that doesn’t involve removing it.

Where NOBODY’S shitty art or art with hateful messages or illegal things is considered bad?

Critiquing “bad” art would be done through comments. People are allowed to point out what aspect of an image they disliked. The only kinds of comments we don’t allow are people just saying “this is shit” or “Everyone who likes this stuff should be shot”.

See where I’m going with this?

No. I see you trying to appeal to a slippery slope argument, ignoring the various reasons given for the decision to remove downvotes.

We already have a filter to use, encourage people to use THAT instead

We do. And the people who often abuse downvotes are the ones who either refuse to filter tags, or purposefully search for images they filter in order to downvote them. And no amount of messages or bans for abusing the system stops them from doing it again.

And lastly, as for mass downvoting… How about you tackle the alts and bots responsible for it?

As was stated in the opening announcement post: We do. The problem is that both detecting it, and examining it take up moderation time that could be used for handling other aspects of the site. The most difficult part being detecting it.

If it were as easy as just spotting an abuser and stopping them, we would have been doing that.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Nonymous

You fucked up, TSP.

Now that we have gotten feedback from artists who approve of the downvote system, we are working on a solution that doesn’t involve removing it.

You forgot to mention anyone besides artists having any influence.

Again.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Joey

PM me your cute OCs

@Nonymous
We are considering feedback from the community as a whole.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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toxicitzi

@Nonymous
is that really relevant, or more relevant to artists who approve the downvote system?

I’m honestly more surprised by the artists who approve it, or want it to stay, because I’m sure they would understand what insecurity is like and that fan art doesn’t need to feel like work.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Icicle Niceicle 1517

Ocs,Boops,Tickles&Memes

@toxicitzi
If it helps I’m an artist and I don’t approve of the downvote system, (and a few other artists here didn’t approve of it too.)

Posted 6 years ago Report

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toxicitzi

@ice1517
it’s not really about that, it’s more the reason I’m curious about.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Zeb

Tag-Bot

@toxicitzi
I can’t go through the comments to search for the ones where artists explain their reasons. But to paraphrase:

They appreciate it as feedback.
“This image got more downvotes than my other images. That means this work doesn’t appeal to people/needs improvement”

And similar.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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Icicle Niceicle 1517

Ocs,Boops,Tickles&Memes

@Zeb
I personally don’t see it, but if it helps them, whatever floats their boat.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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toxicitzi

@Zeb
alright then. I know I said I was curious, but I had a feeling this would be why.

Posted 6 years ago Report

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