Debate thread: About downvoting (modnote:no, not being removed again)

The Smiling Pony
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Hero - Went above and beyond for the Solar Deity, drawing from the power of the sun itself to bring balance to the fight against the Lunar Insurrection (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡° )
@Mange  
Several things:
 
  1. I don’t describe myself as anything, “nazi SJW” is what people complaining about me tend to label me as.
     
  2. I’m actually not one of the people that wanted downvoting straight-up gone. I wanted a system change, yes, but not this drastic. This is what went through because after years of nothing it was presented as the only technically viable option that wouldn’t take half a year to implement and probably be non-reversible.
     
  3. This isn’t something related to that AJ image, or to mouthpiece images in general. This has been something that’s been going on for years. We created the forums four years ago, I cba looking for comment posts from before then, and from the first year of the forum being alive alone:
     
    Idea with downvoting.  
    Downvoted images  
    Blocking users and Vote power  
    disable votes to an image  
    Blocking downvoted images  
    What happened to the ‘neigh’ button?  
    I have a compromise re: no more downvoting from thumbnails:  
    Making the Site More Artist Friendly
     
    And etc. for the last 3 years as well, and that’s not even counting the 2-3 “suggest features” threads with thousands of posts in them I can’t be bothered to crawl through.
xTSGx
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

I’m firmly in the pro-downvote camp. Downvotes give users a quick and easy way of providing some basic feedback to artists and, far more importantly, serves to show other users the potential lack of quality an image may have–especially useful for comics/gifs/high res images where thumbnails aren’t great at showing an image off.
 
I’ve skimmed the thread, so perhaps I’ve missed some stuff, but the anti-downvote arguments I’ve seen seem really lacking:
 
>Artists leave the site  
Unfortunate, but if artists are so fragile they can’t deal with a small red number at the top of the page on the horse art website they’re on, they’re not going to take actual comments well–especially if the “trolls” can’t just downvote anymore and have to leave a comment. I’ve seen more than a few fanfic writers have huge “delete all their stories” meltdowns over some negative comments and I doubt fan artists are any different.
 
Downvotes aren’t fulfilling their intended purpose  
I went and checked the site rules (which really should be in the header and not the footer hardly anyone looks at) and Rule 6 appears to be the one that covers downvotes. “Do not indiscriminately downvote images based on their tags and/or content.” really doesn’t cover the intended purpose, though. The use of “indiscriminately” in particular gives the impression the rule’s covering brigating/mass downvoting. No where is quality or utter shitposting mentioned.
 
It really confuses me what the admins thought users would do. The rule seems to cover a specific type of downvoting and that’s even assuming the average user’s going to scroll halfway down the rules page in the footer and read it. When has “downvote” ever meant “something that’s obviously shitposting?” To a normal person, downvote means “something I don’t like.” It’s not shocking users use it the way it’s used in virtually every other context. I also find it odd upvote still seems to mean “something I like” but downvote got this highly specific definition that was never really clarified to users.
 
>It requires too much moderation  
Honestly, this seems to be the main reason based on some comments in the thread. If mass downvoting is a massive issue, the obvious solution is to limit its ability, perhaps through a hard cap that limits the number of downvotes someone can give per day. A simpler solution is to just increase the size of the moderation team–even have a few mods solely dedicated to dealing with the downvote issue if its so bad. Throwing the baby out with the bath water just seems like a really poor decision. Mods and admins will always have to moderate the site and deal with rule violations. Eliminating site features because you don’t want to deal with that isn’t right. You might tas well get rid of the comments and forums too.
Mange
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Dr Mange Drange MD
@The Smiling Pony  
Either you’re confused, or this is an alt.  
Having even one alt as site mod is considered a bad thing throughout the internet, as it’s indicative of ulterior motives. If that’s the case. you’re dead to me.
The Smiling Pony
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Hero - Went above and beyond for the Solar Deity, drawing from the power of the sun itself to bring balance to the fight against the Lunar Insurrection (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡° )
@Mange  

 
My “alt” has always been public, blatantly so. It lets me browse the site with the filters I want and without buttons and extra information everywhere (and allows me to call an image “nice” without it coming off as a bizarre site endorsement…).
 
Rather than bother to read and discuss anything, you’re… just wow.
Mange
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Dr Mange Drange MD
@The Smiling Pony  
So I can make an account being “The_confused_pony”  
Then later claim to be a site moderator on it?  
>oh it’s OK you didn’t get ya art pack. Send $2 to email.gmail.com  
>i’ll send it to you personally.  
>I’m a site mod.
 
 
Get your fucking house in order. This is deplorable.
Icicle Niceicle 1517
Stormfeather - For supporting the site
Strawberry Sunrise - For Patreon supporters
Tempest & Elizabat - Derpi Supporter
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Lunar Champion - Led the charge of major battles for the New Lunar Republic, bringing swift and crushing defeat to the forces of the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.

Ocs,Boops,Tickles&Memes
Ok sorry if this had already been asked, but when the site was first created, did TSP plan on having the downvote system to begin with, or did he just take it over form Ponibooru?
Xaekai
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) -
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Responsible Disclosure - ZERO​WIDTH​SPACES
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Squirrel - "There are better things to WOOP WOOP to"

Mo​dular Ponkfag
I don’t use downvote much, but I would be miffed to see it go away.
 
 
Did you guys already considering just getting rid of unauthenticated downvoting? Still anonymous, but requires to be logged in to an account.
The Frowning Pony

Administrator
13 blinks per minute
@Mange  
JFC
 
TSP was the original account. I made this one because users complained that me posting shit like “Trixie is best pony” on random images was intimidating or coming off as a site directive and that I should have a separate account instead. Practically everyone that’s used this site for more than a month knows TSP/TFP are one person.
 
 
@ice1517  
I planned for upvotes and downvotes to be fully public, and not having faves. We certainly didn’t take voting over from ponibooru; while it did have voting (at least upvoting, iirc), it required a full page refresh, was separate from faving, and could only be done after loading the full image page. Most people didn’t bother with it, images with double digit scores were rare.
 
 
@Xaekai  
Voting has always required a user account; the potential for abuse otherwise would dwarf that of the current system.
Mange
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Dr Mange Drange MD
@The Frowning Pony  
Doesn’t matter how the account came about. You’ve sidestepped all the complications of you having it.  
You’re in a position of power.  
And every account tied to you should display it. Your unwillingness to admit that much is of concern.  
That you attempt to deflect to a point of history.  
Not even willing to admit that, yes. It should display whom you’re really talking to. How many accounts do you really have?  
Are you a party to vote inflation?  
Are you disliking Nazi ‘propaganda” on multiable accounts?  
You’ve thrown you’re whole role into question in this matter.
The Smiling Pony
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Hero - Went above and beyond for the Solar Deity, drawing from the power of the sun itself to bring balance to the fight against the Lunar Insurrection (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡° )
@Mange  
M8, how about you make a separate thread about this, and get back to addressing:
 
@The Smiling Pony  
@Mange
Several things:
  1. I don’t describe myself as anything, “nazi SJW” is what people complaining about me tend to label me as.
  2. I’m actually not one of the people that wanted downvoting straight-up gone. I wanted a system change, yes, but not this drastic. This is what went through because after years of nothing it was presented as the only technically viable option that wouldn’t take half a year to implement and probably be non-reversible.
  3. This isn’t something related to that AJ image, or to mouthpiece images in general. This has been something that’s been going on for years. We created the forums four years ago, I cba looking for comment posts from before then, and from the first year of the forum being alive alone:
And etc. for the last 3 years as well, and that’s not even counting the 2-3 “suggest features” threads with thousands of posts in them I can’t be bothered to crawl through.
Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Helpful Owl - Drew someone's OC for the 2018 Community Collab

(twi|pony)booru.org
@Mange  
It would serve you well to stop looking in the mirror, and address his actual answer, Oh Entitled One.
 
That, or run to mommy/daddy and cry how ebul site admin isn’t bending over to your manipulation and entitled demands.
Background Pony #039D
@Mange  
We ain’t doing this to get a mod, man. Hell by the looks of that mods have to deal with here (you behavior right now included), it’s ain’t a walk in the park.  
We do it because how amazingly and amusingly stupid you behave right now, my man.
Mange
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Dr Mange Drange MD
@Background Pony #3924  
Mate, you’re more amazed by foundered rules than anything  
There’s been several murders of thoes that pretended to be someone who they are not. in ‘pre-internet’ days. That lead to such things as trip codes.  
This is serious business. There’s a forum here that people wish to askew, for their own gains. Do not take what you read lightly. There’s at least another ten that have and agreed.  
That’s why we fight the topic furiously.  
For debates sake.
WingbeatPony
Daring Do Dakimakura - Attended a Derpibooru panel at a MLP convention
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.
Equality - In our state, we do not stand out.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday

Tag horse
@Mange  
You are exactly the sort of person I made this summary for. The next time you decide to stand up for something, make sure you take the time to understand what’s going on so you don’t embarrass yourself ringing alarm bells over the one thing that’s guaranteed not to happen and spouting conspiracy theories over someone having a nickname.
Nonymous
Wallet After Summer Sale -
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012
Fine Arts - Two hundred uploads with a score of over a hundred (Safe/Suggestive)

You fucked up, TSP.
Wait, smiling and frowning are the same person? I thought having multiple accounts was against the rules.
 
 
@The Frowning Pony  
@Mange
JFC
TSP was the original account. I made this one because users complained that me posting shit like “Trixie is best pony” on random images was intimidating or coming off as a site directive
 
This reinforces keeping downvotes in a way.  
You were afraid that your comment would have a negative effect, so you did what you thought would minimize that. People that are afraid that leaving criticism would have a negative effect downvote instead.  
Both of these are people wanting to share their opinion.
WingbeatPony
Daring Do Dakimakura - Attended a Derpibooru panel at a MLP convention
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.
Equality - In our state, we do not stand out.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday

Tag horse
@Nonymous  
Having multiple accounts is not against the rules. Having multiple accounts to vote multiple times on the same image is against the rules, having multiple accounts to evade bans is against the rules.
 
And honestly. The “negative effect” is that he couldn’t voice a personal opinion without it being interpreted as the official stance of Derpibooru, and you’ll note that the example he gave is a positive opinion. Read more carefully.
The Smiling Pony
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Solar Hero - Went above and beyond for the Solar Deity, drawing from the power of the sun itself to bring balance to the fight against the Lunar Insurrection (April Fools 2023).
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
King Sombra - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of The Crystal Empire!
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡° )
Wait, smiling and frowning are the same person? I thought having multiple accounts was against the rules.
Which just reinforces you’ve never read the rules, as multiple accounts have been covered as “OK” for half a decade.
 
People that are afraid that leaving criticism would have a negative effect downvote instead.
There’s no way you believe that a significant portion of people downvoting rather than leaving actual criticism are doing so out of fear of a “negative effect”, rather than simple laziness or utter lack of care.
 
In either case, downvotes aren’t getting removed.
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