Youtube Discussion

Soooooo…about that new policy……

@Conflik9929  
This policy is gonna backfire hard on google.

I wish there would be a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE Boycott YT movement.

@Shirani  

 
Assuming there is a viable competition.
 
I just hope the likes of Yahoo and others, as compromised as there are, will capitalize on Google’s incompetence.

Oh for FUCKS SAKE GOOGLE! Censoring HISTORY channels now youtube!

@LegatusFlagrans  
I don’t care what the video that got flagged was about, the fact that it happened is what bothers me so much.
 
@LegatusFlagrans  
Heres the thing, with how the current U.S. political climate is at the moment (fucking terrible) and that if the new system ends up being relegated to an AI (which can be easily broken) there will be videos that will be put into this limited state when there is nothing wrong at all. And, correct me if I’m wrong, but you can just ignore the video if it displeases you (but given how sensitive everyone is, that may pose a problem.)

@Conflik9929  
I definitely agree on the AI thing, I don’t really think anything should be relegated to AI in regards to this kind of stuff; I’m optimistic about the future of AI but I don’t think it’s ready to be used to filter hate speech, as @Shirani has made clear. I also realize that there are some dingbats out there who will try to label anything leaning even slightly to the right as offensive, I get that; I’m pretty hard to the left, and even I think that people take it way too far - I’m not going to trample on people’s rights to say “Fuck the ACA” or “Build the wall” or anything like that.
 
But I still don’t think that YouTube should allow videos which are blatantly Nazist/white-supremacist in nature to be publicly displayed; it’s not just displeasing, the Nazi ideology in itself serves as a radical call to action to take away the rights of fellow citizens. It just disturbs me that such rhetoric is given free reign to spread, both in public and on the internet.

@LegatusFlagrans  
the thing YOU don’t get tho is that this censorship will only serve to push them underground. Then normal people will wonder “why were they censored?” and because of the forbidden fruit effect and the Streisand Effect they will go look for it and spread it across the internet because an authoritarian company doesn’t want them to see it. Humanity is naturally rebellious. It is within our very being to rebel. That you don’t seem to realize that is troubling in and of itself.

@Shirani  
By that logic, we shouldn’t have regulations or laws or government whatsoever. If humanity is naturally inclined to rebel against them, why should they be in place at all? If laws and rules are going to be broken anyway, what’s the point in having them?
 
If there ceases to be a public acceptance of something that is clearly and intuitively wrong to the rest of the populace, it will eventually become nothing but a rarity. Will there be a short-term surge in the attention it recieves? Possibly, but “short-term” is the key here.

@LegatusFlagrans  
Our mindsets and way of thinking is that we don’t want to be bound by overbearing authority. Which is EXACTLY what youtube and by extention google is doing. They are censoring people they don’t agree with even if they aren’t Nazis. This includes anyone to the right of their “acceptable” viewpoint. Laws are one thing but censoring opinions when we have free speech for “supposedly” everyone and censoring them because we find their views reprehensible is NOT a wise thing to do. Because everyone loses power eventually and when they lose power….guess what happens to them when the new holders of power disagree with their views. You DONT censor people if they have detestable viewpoints, because that leads to bad things down the road and it will eventually be thrown back at you in either the form of a rebellion that is too large to squash OR a changing of the guard by the very people you censored. Everyone who supposedly believes in free speech should know this by now.  
Also “If there ceases to be a public acceptance of something that is clearly and intuitively wrong to the rest of the populace, it will eventually become nothing but a rarity. Will there be a short-term surge in the attention it recieves? Possibly, but “short-term” is the key here.” This is done by DISCOURSE not CENSORSHIP! because censorship will cause underground movements to grow not decline as we have seen many MANY times throughout history.

@Shirani  
Well, as you can probably see from recent events, discourse hasn’t really had much of a tendency to work with Nazis… and free speech as a legal protection is already far from absolute. You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theater to start a panic, homeless people can’t beg for change in front of a store, and the Westboro “Baptist Church” can’t protest within 300 feet of a soldier’s funeral.
 
There is a difference between censoring people for having differing opinions, and calling out Nazi rhetoric for what it is - an incitement to violence and discrimination against non-whites, non-heteros, and non-Christians; it’s not just reprehensible, it’s dangerous, and legal action ought to be taken against it as such.
 
But I do agree that YouTube shouldn’t censor viewpoints which simply differ from theirs, I’m not saying they should; and if they are, there need to be measures taken to put a stop to it. As I said before,  

@LegatusFlagrans  
Nazis wont change their mind but NORMAL people do! THEY are the audience we want to show how discourse can prevent radicalization and censorship wont do that! It will just make things worse because normal people will seek out things which are forbidden. We have always done that. Its why the forbidden fruit effect and Streisand effect is a thing. People are naturally attracted to freedom and that INCLUDES freedom to hear and think of reprehensible ideas and ideologies.

Actually in all honesty I have no problem with letting Nazis and other extremists have an open forum to speak.
 
In this day and age many average Joes and Janes aren’t swayed by extremist or Supremacist groups, the people who are swayed usually are suffering from mental problems or are just really unlucky and need a scapegoat

@neutralgrey  
which is WHY we should let them have a platform so they look like the fools they really are! Give them the rope and they will gladly hang themselves with their words.

@Shirani  
But the very reason that Nazis still exist in America is the idea that they can say whatever they want in public and get away with it; that they can parade through the streets and antagonize minority populations, call for the displacement of colored people to “defend the white race”, and label anyone who isn’t a Protestant Christian an “infidel” that must be exterminated.
 
Because it is stressed that their “ideas” must be protected under free speech laws, the Nazis have free reign to voice their violent rhetoric and convert others to their cause. Nazism has already been illegal in Europe for over a half-century, and I’ve heard literally nothing about problems with Nazis over there.

@Shirani  
I agree. Besides those kinds of channels probably just have a handful of subscribers anyway.
 
The fear that if they’re given a platform to speak they might radicalize people is understandable, but its really not a big deal. The impact will be negligible, it may affect a few teens going through their rebellious phase but they’ll grow out of it.

@LegatusFlagrans  
They’re not Nazis, they’re Neo-Nazis. Essentially they’re a bunch of fucking wannabes who are less than nothing and are actually more retarded than the actual Nazis.
 
They fail at life so they put their blame on the Jews and minorities and othe groups rather than accept responsibility. They’re losers, and we shouldn’t be worried about them.

@LegatusFlagrans  
and if they become violent arrest them. If they are not being physically violent let them say what they want! They will die by the court of public opinion if you allow them to speak. “ Nazism has already been illegal in Europe for over a half-century, and I’ve heard literally nothing about problems with Nazis over there.” because Europe doesn’t have the same rights we have. WE have the right of the first amendment which FORBIDS government censorship of public freedom of expression and discourse. Europe DOESNT! The only nation that almost comes close is Great Britain’s Magna Carta, but they have all but thrown that away.

@neutralgrey  
in all honesty if SJW and Political Correctness wasn’t a thing we would have had a peaceful future AND the left would have won the culture war. BUT they squandered it by finding offense in just about everything. I am being dead serious about this! If none of this bullshit came to pass I bet it the republican party would be gone by the 2020’s.

@Shirani  
You say that like Europe is some autocratic dystopia. Most western European nations DO have protections for the freedom of speech and religion and public demonstration, just not for when said speech infringes upon the rights of another. Therein is the important thing - unadulterated freedom of speech is not necessarily a good thing, especially when it allows rhetoric that is dangerous to the principles of an egalitarian, democratic government.

@Shirani  
Yeah true, but there’s not much that can be done now

@Shirani  
I find that hard to believe, considering all the intolerance of things like LGBT rights and Islam post-9/11 coming from the tea-party right.
 
I feel like the left had a real chance with Bernie, but of course the DNC had to fuck that up…  
Yes, I’m still bitter about it…

@Shirani  
Well, the DeFranco issue does seem a bit fishy, but the rest is probably another algorithm issue, since all it is is demonetization, not censoring.
 
Google really needs to learn where and where not to relegate an AI to things…