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Description

The long-awaited Hack Snider’s cut of Dawn of Friendship was finally released to polarizing opinions from both movie critics and fans.
Some praise it for stunning visual effects while others scoff at yet another cynical take on the known and beloved heroes of Equestria
  • a common theme in Snider’s movies which often worked to his detriment. Regardless which side you’re on, it will be one of most talked-about movies this afternoon.
Overall score: 3+-/10
Vanhoover Gazette

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Comments

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Background Pony #87F3
With the shadowy Alicorn in “Make your Mark” I feel like this might be “hilarious in hindsight” soon.
Background Pony #6FCB
@GeneralKenobi75
To randomly necropost, my absolute favorite Riddler was from a comedic side thing that was part of a bigger storyline about zombie werewolves (that Batman kept insisting had a scientific basis) or something.
>Batman batresearching at the batcomputer to get batleads on murderous cult
>Depressed Riddler cries about never getting one over on batman, convinced to do one last run by his henchmen (But if he quits, we’ll have to get actual jobs!) Riddler sends out a challenge on TV
>Batman sighs and gets back to the imminent apocalypse because, honestly, it’s the Riddler, he’s just going to steal some stuff
>Naturally, the cult lead and the Riddler’s heist are targeting the same museum
>Re-depressed Riddler, on the way to the paddywagon, asks how Batman solved it so quickly
>Batman admits it was coincidence and he’s kind of got more urgent things on his plate
>Spread page of WTF faces as joyous, cackling Riddler is dragged into paddywagon screeching “I WON!”
GeneralKenobi75
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Wayneponeth
That’s part of showing off how smart he is. He won’t let anyone forget it. Which makes his comeuppance all the more funny and satisfying. He can’t accept that Batman is smarter than he is.
Exactly. That’s how the Riddler should be portrayed. Not as a run-of-the-mill serial killer but a criminal genius who enjoys bamboozling people. He rarely kills because just killing random people doesn’t exactly show how smart you are. He wants people to know he’s outwitted them. Which is partly why he gets caught. He’s the Wile E Coyote of Batman villains. He doesn’t just want to win, he wants to win brilliantly.
Batman has enough villains who are like that though. Joker, Two-Face, Scarecrow, Ra’s al Ghul, Bane, Mr Zasz. Lives are always at stake when they’re involved. The Riddler is an intellectual challenge for Batman. He is willing to use lethal force, his death traps he puts Batman in are always designed to kill, but that’s so there is more of a challenge for Batman. He doesn’t go around murdering people left and right like the Joker. He considers himself above that.
In the 2004 series, The Batman, the Riddler’s plans involved him putting bombs around the city to occupy the police and Batman. However, those bombs turned out to be fake because the Riddler’s real plan was to steal data from the Gotham City mainframe. That’s a Riddler story.
From what I’ve seen, they’ve just turned the Riddler into a serial killer. His design, his mannerisms, all just reek of some torture style serial killer like Jigsaw. And we’ve seen that Riddler too many times. Gotham, the Tell-tale game, and Earth 2. For once, I’d just like the see a Riddler that isn’t trying to be “edgier”.
The Jim Carrey version did kill a man. One of the guys who was going to get him fired. He pushed him out a window.
Just Wayne
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Blingo
@GeneralKenobi75
It is less showing off how smart he is and more like boasting how much better he is than anyone else, not just Batman. At least that’s the case with Arkhamverse. But in the end he is always outsmarted by Batman/the player.
Ironically despite that, the Riddler in the Arkhamverse is actually almost like how you describe of him. Other than Arkham City, he was less of a Jigsaw like serial killer and more a criminal mastermind. In Arkham Origin his plan is to release blackmail data, not really directly killing anyone. In Arkham Asylum he never kills anyone either, just laying down puzzles for Batman to solve. Even in Arkham Knight you could argue he only targets Catwoman and Batman, so not exactly a serial killer. The thing is, what Riddler does needs to have consequences or there is no reason for Batman to go after him. Releasing sensitive data or something like that is actually a good way for Riddler to be a threat without killing. Maybe there is something bigger going on in the upcoming Batman movie than just mass murder. The trailer didn’t reveal much after all.
Funnily the Jim Carrey version is also pretty much like that. He steals people’s brain powers and destroys Wayne Manor. I don’t remember him killing anyone. :P
GeneralKenobi75
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Wayneponeth
Not to me. They’re more contrived excuses. That straight to video movie is still the best Superman/Batman movie we’ll ever see right now. Of course, it doesn’t have much competition.
I don’t. Its basically turning the Riddler into Jigsaw. A serial killer with a gimmick, which is not what the Riddler is. In the comics, the Riddler rarely kills. He’s not a sadistic murderer like the Joker or Scarecrow. He’s purely in it for the challenge and to prove how smart he is. He’s all about clever crimes and puzzles. Him just being yet another serial killer is just lazy.
That’s part of the fun of the Riddler though. He loves to show off how smart he is and have everyone know it. He’s a smug know-it-all and he revels in it, that’s part of his charm. Think Sherlock Holmes from the Sherlock series only a criminal mastermind and you basically have the Riddler. Him just being another serial killer with a gimmick isn’t interesting. Also, the top hat and question mark suit are amazing, its iconic. I hate how they feel they need to make someone like the Riddler “darker”. Batman has enough villains like that. Its the same with the Penguin too, I hated his look in Burton’s Batman Returns because they just made him into another monster for Batman to fight. Rather than the sophisticated criminal genius he’s supposed to be.
The Riddler from the 2004 show also was not just a serial killer with a gimmick. He was out to prove how smart he was as well. Pretty much all the Riddlers respect Batman to an extent, even if they won’t admit it. But the Riddler likes matching wits with Batman because he sees Batman as the only one worthy of the game,
GeneralKenobi75
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@Spidey10
It seems to me just more of the darkness my old friend stuff people think Batman is nothing but. And for me, the Riddler being a serial killer is the laziest interpretation of the Riddler. Basically just turning him into Jigsaw because its “edgier”. The Riddler in the comics rarely killed, he was more focused on pulling off clever crimes. It sucked in Gotham when they made him into just a serial killer, and it sucked in the Telltale Game. So I’m not holding out hope for this Riddler. But we’ll see.
Just Wayne
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Blingo
@GeneralKenobi75
Eh, low bar but if we really want Batman to fight Superman, those are at least better motivations than devoid of logic. But I do agree. Batman and Superman always work better as friends. They both basically try to achieve the same thing and have the same ideologies. The best way their relationship works is in Batman Superman The World’s Finest episode where they distrust each other at first but eventually grew to an understanding. That’s really a better way to portray Batman and Superman.
Also on the topic of Matt Reeves’ upcoming movie, I actually like this version of Riddler, especially the design. I like the new creepier look away from the usual round hat and green question mark suit. And as a person who has played all the Arkham games many times, this is definitely better than telling Batman how much smarter he is 24/7. I never watch it but I heard that the Riddler from the 2004 Batman show apparently sees Batman as his equal and actually respects Batman to an extend. That’s also a pretty cool take on the Riddler I think.
Spidey10
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Spidey10
I hope so too, but I’m not holding my breath. The upcoming Pattinson one looks like its just going to be another typical grim and edgelord Batman story which we’ve seen over and over again. And while the Riddler is a good choice for a mystery style Batman story, I hate how they’re portraying the Riddler in this. Making him into a run of the mill serial killer rather than the criminal mastermind he is in the comics. The best Riddler is still the one from the Animated Series.
I disagree. The trailers (Especially the first one) give off the impression that the film is Se7en meets Batman lore. And that sounds pretty sweet to me. Plus I just trust Matt Reeves to make a great film since I love his 2 Planet Of The Apes movies. But to each their own.
I agree that the best Riddler adaptation so far is the one from BTAS, but I’m all for the serial killer take they’re doing. And Paul Dano is one of the most underrated actors working today. Just don’t have the film be Batman trying to collect all the hidden Riddler trophies (XD).
GeneralKenobi75
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Spidey10
I hope so too, but I’m not holding my breath. The upcoming Pattinson one looks like its just going to be another typical grim and edgelord Batman story which we’ve seen over and over again. And while the Riddler is a good choice for a mystery style Batman story, I hate how they’re portraying the Riddler in this. Making him into a run of the mill serial killer rather than the criminal mastermind he is in the comics. The best Riddler is still the one from the Animated Series.
GeneralKenobi75
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@Wayneponeth
That’s the thing about Batman. He’s paranoid and cynical because he has to be. He’s a detective first and foremost so he has to be suspicious of everyone until they’re proven innocent. Not because he’s a crazed nut who assumes the worst about everyone because he thinks everyone is inherently bad like Snyder seems to make him out to be.
Exactly. Batman really shouldn’t have been the one getting the League together. That should have been Wonder Woman.
Eh, I don’t like those ones either. They’re better than Snyder’s, but that’s a really low bar. Injustice is just a contrived set up to explain why the heroes are fighting and it relies on making Superman as evil as possible for it to work. The Dark Knight Returns isn’t much better. It portrays Superman as just a puppet of the American government, which I cannot see Superman becoming, and is just there to make Batman look good because Miller really hates Superman it seems.
The thing is, we don’t need to see a Superman vs. Batman movie. And that definitely shouldn’t be their first meeting as characters. The best Superman/Batman movie is still the animated one from the DCAU.
Spidey10
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@GeneralKenobi75
That’s actually a good point. I always thought Batman acts very not like Batman in these movies, and over time I began to think his paranoia is actually pretty Batman like. That was until you made your point. Batman may be paranoid and not trust anyone, but he isn’t stupid. Batman’s calculative mind and detective skills are all overlooked by Snyder and he kinda acts dumber than any character in the movies. There is also something missing about him in the Snyder Cut. Maybe it’s because he is the one that assembles the Justice League when in most other interpretations he is a part-timer. He is kind of over-reliant on other people and he doesn’t have that dominant authoritative attitude (like how he could tell his fellow league members not to touch anything and those powerful gods and aliens would comply without question.). It just didn’t feel like Batman. I’m actually glad someone else feels the same and even gave me more insights.
The funny thing is, both Injustice and Dark Knight Returns, which ironically was probably what Snyder based on, have better Batman vs Superman than Batman V Superman. At least they don’t just fight because one of them wouldn’t listen to the other explain his mother has been kidnapped.
Really all of the live action Batman films (From Burton, Schumacher, Nolan, and Snyder) haven’t portrayed the “World’s Greatest Detective” aspect to it’s full potential. I’m hoping Matt Reeves and Robert Pattinson really deliver that with next year’s The Batman.
Macaroni C-Pony
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@Wayneponeth
That is a very thin excuse. Same with his BS “one percent chance” argument. The actual Batman would make sure he has all his facts straight before he decides to take action against Superman of all people. This Batman is a reckless idiot who gets easily manipulated by Lex Luthor. Not that Superman is much better in this movie.
I agree. Its all just an excuse to get the two at odds. Unlike Captain America and Iron Man, who used to be friends but their clashing personalities and circumstances caused them to be at odds. Superman and Batman’s conflict is so forced and contrived. Way to represent the World’s Finest here Snyder. And the Martha scene is just the highlight of the stupidity.
That’s what happens when you focus on keeping up with Marvel instead of world building and establishing plots ahead of time.
Just Wayne
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Blingo
@GeneralKenobi75
That’s actually a good point. I always thought Batman acts very not like Batman in these movies, and over time I began to think his paranoia is actually pretty Batman like. That was until you made your point. Batman may be paranoid and not trust anyone, but he isn’t stupid. Batman’s calculative mind and detective skills are all overlooked by Snyder and he kinda acts dumber than any character in the movies. There is also something missing about him in the Snyder Cut. Maybe it’s because he is the one that assembles the Justice League when in most other interpretations he is a part-timer. He is kind of over-reliant on other people and he doesn’t have that dominant authoritative attitude (like how he could tell his fellow league members not to touch anything and those powerful gods and aliens would comply without question.). It just didn’t feel like Batman. I’m actually glad someone else feels the same and even gave me more insights.
The funny thing is, both Injustice and Dark Knight Returns, which ironically was probably what Snyder based on, have better Batman vs Superman than Batman V Superman. At least they don’t just fight because one of them wouldn’t listen to the other explain his mother has been kidnapped.
GeneralKenobi75
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Spidey10
That is still murder. And I would not put it past this Batman to engage in premeditated murder. His immediately deciding to kill Superman without getting all the facts straight just shows how deranged this Batman is. But suddenly he stops trying to kill Superman because his mother has the same name as his?
The Knightmare scenes were already unnecessary so I couldn’t determine if the Joker was better or not.
GeneralKenobi75
Lunar Supporter - Helped forge New Lunar Republic's freedom in the face of the Solar Empire's oppressive tyrannical regime (April Fools 2023).

@Wayneponeth
That is a very thin excuse. Same with his BS “one percent chance” argument. The actual Batman would make sure he has all his facts straight before he decides to take action against Superman of all people. This Batman is a reckless idiot who gets easily manipulated by Lex Luthor. Not that Superman is much better in this movie.
I agree. Its all just an excuse to get the two at odds. Unlike Captain America and Iron Man, who used to be friends but their clashing personalities and circumstances caused them to be at odds. Superman and Batman’s conflict is so forced and contrived. Way to represent the World’s Finest here Snyder. And the Martha scene is just the highlight of the stupidity.
Macaroni C-Pony
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@Wayneponeth
While I don’t particularly enjoy the DC New 52 animated movies, I will say that they hold the best representation of Batman’s skills against superhumans outside comics, not just in terms of skills, but deception and technology.
Just Wayne
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Blingo
@Macaroni C-Pony
I agree partially. I, like everyone else, find the warehouse scene the best scene to portray Batman’s fighting skills. The way he fights Superman is also really cool. I just hope he fights Parademons as well as when he fights humans. Even in the Snyder Cut he can barely handle one Parademon, being tossed around just like the Joss Whedon version. Just as you said, Batman is the best fighter in the DC comics. Even Darkseid’s minions are no match for him. That isn’t conveyed very well in the movies, well, movie.
Macaroni C-Pony
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@Wayneponeth
Well I do think the DCEU did a good job displaying the action and fighting prowess of Batman (aside from the whole killing). Batman, even as a human in a world filled with superheroes, is still one of the best fighters in DC comics, but also one of the smartest.
It’s nice to see an adaption of this side of Batman compared to Nolan’s and Burton’s, and most likely the new Batman, which will also likely be a mystery thriller
Just Wayne
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Blingo
@Macaroni C-Pony
Yeah, I heard something like that before, something along the line of “Batman realizes this alien actually has a mother so he shouldn’t be killed” but it isn’t explored so well. It’s pretty surface level and underdeveloped. In fact, a lot of things about this Batman are like that. The influence of Jason Todd’s death on Batman psyche, never really explained how it makes Batman darker and crueler. How killing people and almost killing the innocent Superman could influence Batman psychologically, never really thought about it. We actually don’t know a lot about this Batman mentally compared to the other versions. That’s one of the problems that could happen when one makes Batman switch from killing to not killing. Batman just doesn’t seem to care about killing or not killing at all. If he can just switch around like that, we can’t really look into his mind and understand him psychologically. It’s like the change doesn’t do anything to Bruce and it’s pretty much pointless. That’s really the biggest problem with Batman only killing people during BVS. It never does anything to the story or the character. It’s kind of just glanced off afterward like it doesn’t matter, not just the fact that Joker not having been killed yet makes no sense.
To be honest, none of the movies did Batman very well, not BVS, not Josstice League, and not even the Snyder Cut. Sometimes he is devoid of logic aka too dumb. Sometimes he is too underdeveloped. Sometimes he is too reliant on others. And no, his power is definitely not just “I’m rich”. Even in terms of fighting skills, Batman still gets tossed around by a Parademon and doesn’t really fight a lot in the Synder Cut. He just shoots them from far away which isn’t impressive either. Sure he fought really well in BVS, but he fights just as poorly in Snyder Cut as in Josstice League. In the end Batman gets the shortest end of the stick in the DCEU, but at least Ben Affleck’s acting and physique help save the character. I just hope the upcoming Batman film will do better.
Spidey10
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@Spidey10
I haven’t watched the ultimate edition in a long time. Mainly because it was so unnecessarily long and I disliked the theatrical cut so much to begin with so that might have escaped me. But it seems more like Robin’s death should have had more to do with Batman’s fall than Metropolis. Losing the closest thing he’s had to a son should have done more to drive him to become a killer than being mad at Superman for his recklessness. And it still doesn’t explain why Batman hasn’t hunted down the Joker now that he’s suddenly decided he’s going to be a murderous psycho. The Joker should not be alive. Sure would have saved us the awful performance of Jared Leto as the Joker.
Either way, its just more of an excuse Snyder has as to why Batman would be OK with killing Superman.
Well the film never showed him actually planning/committing premeditated murder (Other than with Superman obviously). He just kills some bad guys when in combat with them.
Leto’s Joker was too much in Suicide Squad, but I thought he was great during the Knightmare scene in Snyder’s JL.
Macaroni C-Pony
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@Wayneponeth
I think what the writers were going for is that Batman hearing he shares their mother’s first name would give him some insight on Superman’s humanity and think less of him as the monster he thought he was
The idea makes sense, but the execution was just… Well there’s a reason “Save Martha” became a meme
Just Wayne
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Blingo
@GeneralKenobi75
Probably because Superman could literally bring the end of the world which is what those “knightmares” indicate. Compared to that, Cesar Romero Joker can probably do worse than this Jared Leto Joker. It makes sense Bruce is more paranoid about a Kryptonian. Of course the Martha scene completely overthrows that. Suddenly Superman isn’t so dangerous anymore because his mother shares the same name as Bruce’s. This sudden change of motivation also makes those knightmare scenes even worse because they’re supposed to continue Bruce’s paranoia knowing Clark will eventually become like that. The writing of these movies is really all over the place and feels like everything happens as an excuse for characters to do something or probably because Synder thought it’s cool.