@Genevamode

Hey Ma, look! I’m being cognitively dissonant!

@Pagan

why is it so difficult to just let people say what they want?

Because being misgendered isn’t fun and also dehumanising.

It seems like it uses way more energy to whine about that than to just ignore it, I doubt they’ll be heartbroken about someone they hardly know not calling them a preferred pronoun.

Alright, imagine having someone call you by your wrong pronoun. Then imagine that happening to you with almost everybody you meet throughout your entire day. Your neighbour, your boss, the cashier at the check-out lane, the person who sits beside you on the bus or train -

And you know something? Compound that with the psychological distress trans people get from gender dysphoria and it really doesn’t end well. All they’re asking for is to be addressed by their preferred pronoun, a change in a few words and yet here you are, making it out to be some Herculean task.

and to change pre established social norms that have been around for thousands of years is a lot more difficult to learn than to just keep using what’s normal

Slavery was a pre-established norm for thousands of years, but that doesn’t make it okay. The duration of how long a phenomenon has been around doesn’t automatically grant it legitimacy, especially if it’s morally wrong.

I’m gay but I don’t expect every person to just accept it, as long as they don’t infringe on my rights or try to hurt it doesn’t really matter

it honestly takes so much more energy to whine about your pronouns and spend time trying to justify why you should be be called those things, and to force the people you perceive to be below to say them than it does to just apologize and adjust your vernacular and habits to be at the most basic level of accommodation.

you see what did there? ;)

A few seconds of memorisation of a few different words for pronouns. That’s what we’re asking for.

I support the trans community but sometimes I have a hard time justifying it when I see the shit they do and the way they are held on pedestals

Translation: They better conform to my personal expectations of what’s considered to be normal cause I’m splitting the moment they dare act differently.

It legit worries me that with how modern liberals act we might see all the good we accomplished getting trans and gay people’s rights taken away in the pushback against the overly pc culture that has arisen from it

So calling for the basic right to be treated equally is somehow overly PC culture that deserves to be dismantled.

No one is getting jailed for using the wrong pronouns. Maybe one or two got fired from their jobs for it, but guess what? That’s what happens when you don’t act professional in the workplace and treat your colleagues like actual fucking human beings.

1. You clearly do not know the definition of “dehumanising”. It’s in the name: reducing the status of someone to below that of a human. Misgendering does not do that.
    
2. It doesn’t matter how easy it is to “just use the right pronouns”; the point is that people should not be forced to do so for fear or being fired or arrested (as happened in the UK). Your demands are transgressing interpersonal boundaries. You simply do not have the right to bully people because they aren’t speaking the way you want. The reason we are treating it as a “Herculean task” is because we have a right to disagree and not be penalized for it. I’m tired of differences of opinion as to what entails gender being treated as a personal attack. It’s totally dishonest.
    
3. Morality is largely subjective - albeit underpinned by the fundamental concept of human rights.
    
4. That picture is a strawman. Nobody is attacking your right to exist, nor is anybody attacking your humanity. That old persecution gambit is so tired. What we are attacking is the idea that the trans community seems to think it has the right to not be offended, and that browbeating people by indirectly threatening them with potential suicides is a legitimate argument. If a partner in an interpersonal relationship pulled that, they’d be considered emotionally abusive.
    
5. The basic right to be treated equally? That’s strange, when someone from any other group of people feels insulted they usually just put it behind them and cope with it. Transactivists are the only people demanding that others tread on eggshells, and sometimes wielding State power to get their own way. If you want equality, then cope with hearing what you don’t like as any other person would. No other group of people has the right to not be offended, why should you? Because some of you might commit suicide? That isn’t anybody else’s fault and it is totally unfair to hold other people responsible for the fact that other people are suicidal. It is the responsibility of the suicidal trans person in question to get help for their depression/dysphoria.
    
6. How does “misgendering” someone mean you are treating them as though they’re less than human? You need to stop throwing that dehumanization rhetoric around, because you clearly do not understand the meaning of the word.
    
   From Wikipedia: “Dehumanization or an act thereof can describe as the denial of full humanness to others, and the cruelty and suffering that accompany it. A practical definition refers to it as the viewing and treatment of other persons as if they lack mental capacities that we enjoy as human beings.”

Translation: They better conform to my personal expectations of what’s considered to be normal cause I’m splitting the moment they dare act differently.

why is it so difficult to just let people say what they want?

It seems like it uses way more energy to whine about that than to just ignore it, I doubt they’ll be heartbroken about someone they hardly know not calling them a preferred pronoun.

and to change pre established social norms that have been around for thousands of years is a lot more difficult to learn than to just keep using what’s normal

I’m gay but I don’t expect every person to just accept it, as long as they don’t infringe on my rights or try to hurt it doesn’t really matter

 
 

it honestly takes so much more energy to whine about your pronouns and spend time trying to justify why you should be be called those things, and to force the people you perceive to be below to say them than it does to just apologize and adjust your vernacular and habits to be at the most basic level of accommodation.

you see what did there? ;)

I support the trans community but sometimes I have a hard time justifying it when I see the shit they do and the way they are held on pedestals

It legit worries me that with how modern liberals act we might see all the good we accomplished getting trans and gay people’s rights taken away in the pushback against the overly pc culture that has arisen from it

I should not be banned or called transphobic or fired because I won’t say they, them, xir, other kin

@Violet Rose in The Rain
there’s a difference between respecting someone’s wishes and being forced to do something against your will, I already said I use preferred pronouns, I respect trans people enough to do that but I should not be compelled to do so under the threat of being banned or fired.

Also it’s very telling how you can’t meet anywhere in the middle and think that if someone doesn’t just lay down their rights as a person and prostrate themselves before certain kinds of people they must be a bigot, like a person explaining very clearly they hold no ill will to said group and even support them is still a monster if they don’t also give up their rights for them and use certain words to describe them.

oh and because I know you’ll try to use the same argument twice I’m gonna make it super clear for you, I think trans people deserve the same rights and protections as anyone else, my profile picture that I have used for years is a youtuber who is trans who I openly support, I even use their preferred pronoun, but I will only use he or she and I should not be banned or called transphobic or fired because I won’t say they, them, xir, other kin, apache helicopter, etc. If you think that stuff is valid then by all means go ahead and use them but don’t force other people to have to comply with that.