Rule #0 Policy Refinement Feedback Thread

Background Pony #0176

Oof, as a German I am really shocked to see what people seem to let willingly pass on the second round, (first one was already questionable to me).

Altho I wonder if that 50/50 split on such topics is proper. We have majority votes (2/3) in democracy for a reason. Maybe this yes/no with a split in the middle is too lenient on such topics?

I really have to let that sink in for a bit. :|

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Background Pony #CB51

I’m surprised the “not rule #0” ones are so controversial, they seem like clear jokes. I’d also say the dab one is clearly over the top and I’d actually have expected >>849945 to be not okay.

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Princess Luna

Senior Moderator

Site Developer

Tag Czar

@PwnyPony
The polling system is to vote on which images to delete, so there isn’t an explicit “okay” vote.

@Background Pony #25FA
That’s a fairly good analysis of things.

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Background Pony #85AC

@Background Pony #B2FF
This is roughly what I wanted to say, though it’s hard to put stuff into words since this poll is tougher. If I had to pick two to swap it would most likely be these two, again considering the racial profiling parody. While it’s clear what griffons are supposed to represent, that at least isn’t exhibited in the image itself, and the outlandishness of it (i.e. Pinkie being there, the dab) kind of skews it towards “keep” to me.

Then again, @Background Pony #25FA also makes a good point. Shit’s complicated.

All of this is far as hell from peak humor to me (except the apparently-controversial image referenced here @Archive_Anon mainly because I just got it like a dumbass), just spitballing.

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Edited 3 years ago

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Background Pony #2327

Well what is the definition of ‘hate speech’ in accordance to this policy?

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MistyFan2478

Misty is best pony

@Background Pony #CB51

I’m surprised the “not rule #0” ones are so controversial, they seem like clear jokes. I’d also say the dab one is clearly over the top and I’d actually have expected >>849945 to be not okay.

That second one seems very clearly like a joke. You can’t take that over-the-top accent seriously.

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Princess Luna

Senior Moderator

Site Developer

Tag Czar

@Background Pony #2327
It hasn’t been defined yet. I think ultimately what we’ll come up with won’t use that phrase, because it’s so loaded and ambiguous.

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Moonatik

Moderator

drank the gender fluid

Going over the internal polling, I feel as if some of the images that violated rule #0 (specifically the “gas chamber” ones like >>1633386 (deleted)) display horrifically hateful and violent acts, but don’t really promote them (rape porn doesn’t promote rape, for instance). Ones like >>693704 (deleted) are a little more in the territory of containing hate speech, but again, nothing that really endorses the views on display, as it seems to be making the “joke” of “cute pony doing horrible thing”. Though I don’t see how images like >>2137237 are remotely borderline.

I looked for examples of what I think would constitute hate speech, but I’m having trouble finding anything specific. That could be because it’s already been removed from the site, in which the modus operandi that existed prior to this drama was probably fine.

Posted 3 years ago Report

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Coco

The WIP policy idea is as follows: “Content containing blatant hate speech, or promotion of or propaganda for prejudicial views”

remove the word blatant, that is too gracious of a qualifier to hide behind. hate speech should not be allowed, period.

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Background Pony #E8AB

Can we at least get a community poll to see wither or not the users support needing to implement this in the first place?

Majority vote is a good way to get at least x >50 % moderator support, but that doesn’t really help all that much if the moderator team is stacked with people on one particular side, and considering some of the resignations, I’m not convinced it isn’t.

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Princess Luna

Senior Moderator

Site Developer

Tag Czar

@Moonatik
Yes, I’ve deleted a few images that slipped by over the years recently, and usually we’re on top of things at least somewhat, so it’d be rather hard to find something all that crazy. I’ve no doubt you could find some eventually, but they’re probably poorly-tagged.

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evan555alpha

PSA: R0 was changed!

First poll:
I personally disagree with the ruling of the Filly Anon pic. If it were “Niggers bad” then sure, but “Ziggers” makes it marginal imo. I also semi-disagree with the first pic (no jews). If it said “no griffons” for example then I’d keep it, but yeah, “no jews” is pushing it a little too far.

Second poll:
As @Background Pony #B2FF said, Pinkie and Aryanne dabbing like that is meant to be shock humour, if anything. The juxtaposition of Pinkie of all characters doing that and all. I’d say to keep it.
Aryanne masturbating and the AJ pic both have artistic merit I think, but yeah, they’re probably pushing it a little too far.

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Pirill

🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸

For poll 2, I’m surprised #0-1 got such a high rating compared to Non-#0-4 since they deal with similar humor in an over the top fashion and it got even more votes than #0-2 which seems significantly worse.

On the flip side, I’m less tolerant of Non-#0-1 by virtue of it being a fairly low effort crop/edit even if the joke is pretty funny otherwise and Non-#0-5 is a similarly low effort gas chamber edit even if it’s based on a meme originally. Overall I’m in favour of your ruling but I think some nuance is definitely required on this set of images.

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Background Pony #F329

@Background Pony #9BF5
So it does, wow, didnt even notice, understandable now.

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Background Pony #25FA

Second poll:
As @Background Pony #B2FF said, Pinkie and Aryanne dabbing like that is meant to be shock humour, if anything. The juxtaposition of Pinkie of all characters doing that and all. I’d say to keep it.

Problem is, “shock humor” is an extremely vague term that could apply to absolutely anything. If a guy walked out onto the street with a video camera, pulled out a gun and shot a random person in the head while video taping it, he could put that video out and say it was “shock humor.” And some people might agree, unfortunately. If they are trying to institute a standard that can be somewhat objectively implemented, the word “joke” can be more readily defined than “shock humor.” Notwithstanding, there is still plenty of debate about what should count as a joke and what shouldn’t, but at least there is a structure to work from.

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Background Pony #FF20

@evan555alpha
Seconding this take on it. The addition of Pinkie makes it even more over the top, especially considering Pinkie Pie and Gilda’s feud. I dunno, the whole picture just looks extremely goofy to me.

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Coco

remove the word blatant, that is too gracious of a qualifier to hide behind. hate speech should not be allowed, period.

to elaborate on this, hate speech is hate speech, blatant or clandestine. neither should be allowed on derpibooru.

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Background Pony #B2FF

@Background Pony #25FA
The juxtaposition and absurd situation is the joke. It’s patently not a good thing, given the obvious distress of their victim, but lackaday I suppose everyone has a different sense of humor.

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In3val3nc3

@Background Pony #25FA
Agree on that one.

@Background Pony #9BF5
I wonder if the mods who voted as it being ‘ok’ didn’t see that part of the image. As it’s pretty much just the same then as any of the other gassing chamber images that were seen as not ok.

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Background Pony #9BF5

@Background Pony #25FA
The difference is that if you actually shot someone, that’s entirely different. A more apt example would be if the person made an animation where a person just randomly gets shot in the head without any context out of the blue. Please don’t resort to flawed, over the top arguments to try to argue against over the top things

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Background Pony #5C8B

@Princess Luna

I’m glad to see that those things from the 2nd poll will be removed soon under the Rule 0!

Seriously, I can understand people having fetishes involving Nazi,
but if someone can get off to a pic of Aryanne who’s masturbating to other ponies/creatures being killed,
that person must be supportive of Nazi’s ideas at the very least.

That’s just beyond messed up.

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Background Pony #25FA

@Background Pony #B2FF

@Background Pony #25FA
The juxtaposition and absurd situation is the joke. It’s patently not a good thing, given the obvious distress of their victim, but lackaday I suppose everyone has a different sense of humor.

Again, that’s not “joke.” You can call it shock humor, if you find that type of thing funny. But like I said, any person could commit murder and call it shock humor, and they would be just as entitled to say so as you are to say ponies dabbing while committing the holocaust is shock humor.

I assume they are trying to do something that can be more objectively implemented. “Joke” is a term that can be defined to some degree, with a certain structure to it.

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Aponty

verified GMO soybean

I’m not sure what purpose showing us these polls serves. The 4chan shitlords want all of that stuff allowed, and everyone else wants to know why exactly any of it is allowed.

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Background Pony #5C8B

As anti-censorship as I am, I do have to admit that the “Aryanne getting off to gassing” pic disgusts me. I don’t see any way how that could be construed as parody. Perhaps as very edgy and darkest black humor, at most.

This!

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Yumenmita

@Princess Luna
Now this poll I don’t agree with. Aryanne dabbing is obviously shock humour, and Aryanne masturbating is just porn. And it’s well drawn too and judging by the votes on the image the community loves it. I feel like deleting that would be a mistake. I don’t agree with #3 either because even though it’s a poorly made edit the image itself isn’t hateful in any way. How could it get 83% votes? That’s ridiculous.
All in all I really can’t pinpoint any sort of static rules the staff is going by here. It looks really random.

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